Didn't you used to...?

[mrissa]

I've run into a confusing phenomenon several times over the last year. It's not confusing when writers screw things up in their books -- writers are as sadly fallible as the rest of humanity. But sometimes I run across a writer who has changed length or sub-genre and seems to have lost a solid skill in the transition.

I can see why someone who knew how to pace a novel might not know how to pace a short story, or vice versa. But when someone's dialog gets clunky and weird in a novel, and it was crisp and reasonable in multiple short stories, I'm confused. Similarly, I can see where one might think high fantasy required or at least benefitted from a different kind of description than urban fantasy or magical realism -- but why would the pacing go south during the switch? I can see where someone might overthink vocabulary and sentence structure when switching from adult to YA, but where would the total lack of character development come in?

It's a little daunting as a reader, wondering where someone is going to just suddenly stop doing something next.

Comments

[miz-hatbox.livejournal.com]

Perhaps they had a good editor before who specialized in the previous genre, but now that they've switched genres they're left floundering until they find another editor?

[sraun]

Interesting. It's a truism to me that, in general, if I like an author's fantasy I probably won't like their SF, and vice versa. There are exceptions, I will generally give any given author one chance, maybe two, to prove me wrong. I'm always very happy to be proven wrong. But the rule does seem to work more often than not. I wonder if it's a symptom of what you're commenting on here?

As an example - L.E. Modesitt. I adore his SF, and abjor his fantasy. From my point of view, it's a pity that Recluse is so popular. But I can't really point to why I hate Recluse so much. Maybe I should find a new entry point and try again some time.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Lois McMaster Bujold?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

That could be. Although with multiple short stories to sample from, it would require a string of good short story editors with the same skill set rather than just one good short story editor.

[sraun]

She's one of the (currently most glaring) exceptions!

[alecaustin.livejournal.com]

While I love her SF and abominate her two most recent fantasies. (The Curse of Chalion was no prize either, though I liked The Spirit Ring just fine.) Clearly you can't please everyone.

[ccfinlay.livejournal.com]

Sometimes an author will break into novels with a work that is much older than their short stories. Order of publication is not necessarily order of writing, and there's only so much that can be fixed in revisions.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

This does happen.

I have reason to know that it didn't happen in at least one of the cases I'm speaking of, though.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

Sort of off topic but your post has me wondering another. What author has done the most crossovers and most successfully.

My old read the Ann Maxwell Dead God Dancing published in 1979 arrived today. No idea how I will find this or any of her books now. She was before my non fiction period. This was a long and solid enough period that it feels like it needs it's own name. Angela's Blue Period. Obviously not a statement of quality but she's had a bit of a range and over a fairly long period.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

www.elizabethlowell.com/books.html

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The most crossovers and most successfully? By crossovers, you mean who's written in the most genres, or what? Because there are people who have multiple names to write in multiple genres, so it's hard to tell for sure. I believe Kristine Kathryn Rusch is an example of this behavior.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

Thanks. When you have a mo check my response to sartorius in S's very long thread from today when I joked about a Crusie Interstitial SF piece set in Finland. (I am very tired.)

And check that link quality aside that is a pretty long resume. And the odd thing about that first big Crusie now that I am continuing to think was it really was a blend. That is what set it apart. Well good at what it was doing too.

[greatestofnates.livejournal.com]

Don't novels have a lot more dialogue than a short story? Seems like it would be easier to keep everything together in a short story.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

This would be a method of writing utterly foreign to me: that you could write dialog in one or two scenes, but twenty or forty would be too much. I suppose it's possible, but it does seem highly unlikely from this vantage.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Ah, is that what you meant! Okay then. And yes, that's a lot of books.

Kate Wilhelm does SF and mysteries and mysteries with SFnal tinges. I really, really like her stuff.

[greatestofnates.livejournal.com]

Some people can do a task 40 times with just as much freshness and attention to detail as the 1st, but I don't think everyone does.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

what I meant? yes it is a fair amount of published books.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I suspect that anyone who thinks "writing a scene with dialog" is the same task every time is best off not writing fiction at all.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I wasn't sure where the Finland thing came from, since I haven't read the work in question.

[greatestofnates.livejournal.com]

I don't think I said they were the same. Maybe we should agree to disagree about agreeing.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

I've only read one of yours, at least so far.

I am sorry that was obscure. And Finland was about Crusie btw. These two are pretty different.

I am curious about how prolific Ann is. I am midway through Dead God btw which is written from the male POV. It has SF and I can see the action elements that got more fully untilized in later works. There is a strong element of things I remember from romances. I am prbably seeing it better now because I am actively examining the book as I read. (Not really my preferred raeding style.)

I should probably mention here I first came across here reading Gran's harlequins when I was pretty young. Even then, you could tell the difference in her writing. I am not amking a case for her as a great SF writer. I am just mulling and trying to tease at the why.

With Crusie, when she got popular she was doing different things than others. Her protags are older, the strength of the story and the supporting caharcters, the empasis on growth. I say that in each book there is something important going on and more important than the romance.

The other thing I notice is pace and a type of dialogue. She would be soemone I would recommend for writers who like to read outside of genre and pick up other things.

One thing I noticed a few years back is that romance writers have a strong sensitivity to their readers, stronger than I have seen in other genres. I think this may be success there depends on engaging the emotions and dreams of the reader, on knowing your audience very well.

It is a tighter rope to walk if you are writing actual sex scenes. But I think there are things for some writers to learn by cross reading. Writers have different intent like any artist.

I draw primarily because I must. It is very much for me. If there is something there speaking to others, attracting their attention, making them think, and I am pretty clear for some people that is so, that is a really nice feeling. It isn't my impetus. But I do value a range of viewing for technique.

I wouldn't, and cannot imagine drawing like someone else. The Finland comment is because I wouldn't tell you to be like Crusie or her like you. I was a little mind boggled that anyone had said that too you.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

What I've noticed in a couple of writers is a real emphasis on dialogue. I am not widely read right now in fiction; but, it seems to me they see the scenes or action primarily around the words exchanged. I suspect it simply a big part of their style.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I think romance writers are more sensitive to their readers than any other writers of genre fiction. I think that their readers want them to be sensitive to different things, but engaging emotions and knowing your audience are vital to any popular fiction field.

I was using the "more like Jennifer Cruisie" as an example -- she isn't one of the people some critiquers have wanted me to write more like. But she also isn't any more similar to me than some of the suggestions people have made.