Where's the baby-related fire?

[mrissa]

People who have children should understand the difference between enjoying someone else's kid and having your own child right this very minute. Really, really, really: if anyone has no illusions about the difference, it should be people with children.

Also, when is someone most likely to acquire their own version of something? When they have a different version they can readily borrow, or when they haven't?

In short, yes, I love my new niece, and yes, I am perfectly happy to bounce her to sleep on my shoulder and smell her head and so on. Please stop suggesting that this means I need to become pregnant in the next 5-10 minutes if at all possible.

Those of you who read this journal probably know that I'm on the pill; I've made no secret of it. But random near-strangers have no way to know that. They might be walking up to people who have been trying to conceive for months or even years, with no results, and cheerfully suggesting that they should start trying. Our family-planning decisions become your business when we say they are, and not before.

But I do love my new niece, and I am perfectly happy to bounce her to sleep on my shoulder, or to play with her toesies in my lap, or to rock her in my arms while she stares at the ceiling (the cats, her dad, her cousins from her other side of family...), and I'm looking forward to more of that today.

Comments

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Some people have no concept of MYOB.

(AND, having raised two sons to independent life, I'd suggest that anyone even a little unsure about the "joys" of parenting would be demonstrating true wisdom by postponing or declining the experience...)

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

People who have children should understand the difference between enjoying someone else's kid and having your own child right this very minute.

Some of us do. That's why we hope to be grandparents: it falls into your first category!

I am always a bit suspicious of parents who insist that everyone should be a parent, just as I am of married people (or unmarried people) who insist that everyone should join their state.

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

No one should ever have children until they are ready and certainly not unless they really, really want them.

I loved being a parent, but I respect and totally understand the people who don't want kids of their own, or know that they need to wait a bit. What I don't understand are the people who put pressure on childless couples to produce offspring asap.

There is a part of me that wonders if they do this because they have qualms about their own choice and they need the validation of seeing others make the same decision.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

Tasty, tasty toes...mmmmmm

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

"No one should ever have children until they are ready and certainly not unless they really, really want them."

Not to pick on you, but if this were the standard, our species would be extinct in one generation. The value to pay attention to here is minding your own business and not bossing people about what they should and shouldn't do. It applies equally to people who are having children that we don't think should be having them. Pregnant for the tenth time? It's no reason to respond with anything less than heartfelt congratulations. We have a fear of childbearing in this country, and it saddens me that many people now seem to look at having a child as something akin to being a Navy Seal or taking holy orders--a calling so high that few people could possibly aspire to it. Nature equips most of us quite well for bearing and raising young, and for most people it's a rewarding experience. That's not to say that everyone has to have children. Just that it's not really like getting chosen to be an astronaut or something where only 1/1000000 have the "right stuff."

Having a child is a leap of faith. You jump in whenever it is you muster up your courage. There certainly is such a thing as "not being ready" to have a child, but there's no such thing as truly being ready. I would like to see more people starting their families younger (not necessarily the present company), because I know too many women who are starting in their mid-to-late-thirties and having their hearts broken by miscarriages and failure to conceive. I wish we had a society that was more supportive of "babies first, then career" rather than expecting that we get tenure or make partner in the law practice or finish up our residency or something before we get started.

[lutin.livejournal.com]

At least other people are accosting you.

I'm doing battle with biology. ("You're 21! Why haven't you already made lots of babies!")

[miz-hatbox.livejournal.com]

Hallelujah and amen.

[columbina.livejournal.com]

We get the baby line occasionally. Since I believe this automatically forfeits the other person's right to civility, I am generally hard-pressed not to bite their head off then and there.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

Just enjoy! And make your own choices.

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

I've been warding off the demands and polite suggestions that I must procreate immediately for ages (well, since I got married). No cultual and national barriers to people's reluctance to mind their own business. Now, as we did start thinking about having children, the outside demands are getting several times more annoying.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

I like being Uncle Dave. I get to play with the kids... and then give them back to the parents when I'm done.

I have mixed feelings about your dilemma. To be sure, your life is your own and it's improper for anyone to suggest such a life-changing event. (My favorite reply, courtesy a letter to Miss Manners iirc, is, "when do you need to know by?")

On the other hand, it's perfectly natural for people in a joyous situation to want to have others share a similar joyous situation. (Not to mention cognitive dissonance after a week of no sleep...) It's a difference in amplitude not tone from "Have you read this book?" I'm a bit past that period in my life when people I didn't know would inquire about children ("you'd make a good father") but my standard reply was on the order of "thanks for the thought".

[mamapduck.livejournal.com]

I had a firend who tried desperately to conceive for years and was crushed everytime some thoughtless yahoo said "oh you should have one of your own!" when she picked up a baby.

She lost it one day and snapped in response, "Why, thank you for the suggestion! How about if I keep yours!"

I might be of the opinion that you would make a terrific mom someday if you so choose. I am certainly of the opinion that it's none of my damn business whether you choose to do so or not. My friend Annie would make an awesome doctor, that doesn't mean I hassle her to go to med school every time she reaches for an aspirin bottle.

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

"No one should ever have children until they are ready and certainly not unless they really, really want them."

Not to pick on you, but if this were the standard, our species would be extinct in one generation.

Eh. The world has enough population as it is. I don't think any of us need feel obligated to continue the species.

I do mind my own business. I never mention anyone's childless state nor do I berate them for having their 12th kid. But I think terrible, nasty thoughts at the moms in the library and grocery store, with their stairstep children running amok with their snotty noses and filthy hands and faces. I don't like most kids and I especially don't like theirs. It's not the kids' fault that mommy and daddy want their own celestial kingdom and so had a kid every year but can't be bothered to train or bathe the older ones because they're all fixated on their new bundle of spiritual fulfillment. The least they could do is keep their little monsters on leading strings and away from me, though.

And what reward do I get for plastering a nice smile on my face and minding my own business? A bunch of women regularly going off on me about how "lonely" it must be for my two kids to have "only" each other to play with at home. Gaaaah.

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

I don't want to start a big thing in Mrissa's comments, but I am going to stand by every word I said, including the statement that I loved being a parent. I am the last one to ever be accused of having a bias against children or childbearing.

But-- I have a firm belief that every child should be a wanted child and that the people raising them should at least have a vague notion of what they are doing. Having an idea of who you are as a person and what you want out of your own life is also a good idea.

I had two children. The first child was a birth control failure baby conceived the first month I was married. She was very loved and I did want her, but I was 19 when she was born. Too damn young in other words. My second child, same marriage, was born when I was 34. He was so wanted and so worked for, and I was a much better parent at 34 than at 19.

Women go for the career first and then the babies for a valid reason. For a lot of us, me for example, a baby meant no career. I didn't get to finish my degree (baby = no money for school). I worked, but they were jobs that didn't make much money and they sucked every spare bit of me out that was left after taking care of a kid and a house. I didn't write for over twenty years because there was nothing left of me to give to writing at the end of a day.

My kids are the light of my life and I'm thankful they are in my life every day. But they came at the price of my establishing any kind of professional life. I had to choose between giving time to make my kids productive, useful human beings, or trying for a career.

Not everyone is willing to make that decision or can bring themselves to follow through with it. It is a huge choice and more than a leap of faith. A child is a life long commitment and raising one is not something that you can do half-heartedly.

There will always be people who want lots of kids and who will have them, early in life and often. The human race is in no danger of extinction because some people choose not to have children or wait until they feel ready or they know they are capable of giving a child what he or she needs.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

Like I said, there are people who aren't ready for parenthood, and who shouldn't have children. It's pretty hard to impose a restriction from the outside, but I would venture that if you are a crack whore and are living in your car, you shouldn't become a mother. It's much harder to say who is ready. Some people are ready when they think they are not. Even people who think they are ready are taken by surprise when they bring home a baby and it totally rocks their world. Let's face it. Nothing can prepare you for the reality of parenthood, but parenthood. But readiness is an internal test, not an external one. You aren't ready to become a mother because you have completed your PhD and saved up enough money for a down payment on a house. Our skills for nurturing and raising a child are ones we learn from our own parents, as we are being raised and nurtured by them. Age perhaps gives us a bit more patience and perspective, but then again there's something to be said for having enough energy to run behind your son's bicycle, or being there to watch grandchildren grow up. Sometimes being ready is not what is important. Sometimes it's all about having faith. You can build a life around your family, and there's no reason not to put off enrolling in med school (or writing that novel) until you are 40. If 40 is not too late to start raising a child, then it damn well isn't too late to start a career. I would not impose a litmus test of any kind on someone becoming a parent, not even a vague one, such as "do you really, really want children." I have seen some surprise pregnancies turn out amazingly well for everyone involved. Life is a precious gift. Even you would have to admit that if you hadn't gotten pregnant unexpectedly, a wonderful person wouldn't be in your life. You can't have it both ways. You can't say "every child should be a wanted child" without unwishing one of the greatest achievements of your life. (I'm assuming your firstborn is pretty awesome.)

[splash-the-cat.livejournal.com]

It doesn't happen often, but after five years of fielding that conversation, I've gotten to the point of responding that it's not something I discuss, and then if pressed, brightly informing the nosy individual, "Oh, I'm infertile, and don't know if I'll ever be able to have children." That usually embarrasses them into quickly changing the subject.

[ladysea.livejournal.com]

It really sucks when people put their nose right in the middle of a delicate situation.

Nothing feels more like a knife to the heart than "You only have one? You should have another one!!!"

Bah. Annoying people.

[buymeaclue.livejournal.com]

I suspect the baby thing works on the same theory as with puppies. You visit your friend and you play with their puppy and leave thinking, "Gosh, that was nice. I wouldn't mind having a puppy."

But leaving out the part where, y'know, you come to your senses and remember that there are reasons you don't have a puppy (ever, or yet, as the case may be).

[jsgbits.livejournal.com]

I'm in the group of MYOB.

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

Especially because they usually insist right after telling some story about their toddler smearing poop all over themselves and everything else, or their baby keeping them awake all night, or the expenses of daycare, or... anyway, something that would not tempt anyone who hadn't already been determined to enter parenthood.

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

Besides, it's nice to have someone who has the time and energy to be a cool childless aunt or uncle, whether that's for a few years or for a lifetime. Of course you can be a cool aunt or uncle when you have kids of your own, but I suspect you are a different sort of cool aunt or uncle.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Our skills for nurturing and raising a child are ones we learn from our own parents, as we are being raised and nurtured by them.

My parents were abusive. I certainly learned NO nurturing skills from them. I didn't begin having children until I was ready to have them. It had nothing to do with career, though I do have a career. It had everything to do with being emotionally ready and financially stable enough to afford them.

I have never abused my children like my parents abused me. I love them very much and I'm glad I waited until I knew I was ready to take care of them. (I had my first at 29, second at 31, and last at 35.)

If 40 is not too late to start raising a child, then it damn well isn't too late to start a career.

Actually, it is too late to begin some careers. By the time you get a degree and start looking for a job, with no previous experience, people are starting to figure out how long you've got until retirement. I know someone in this position now and no one will hire them.

I think every person is different in their choice of having children, having a career, everything they do with their lives.

I don't think any of us are qualified to tell someone else how to run their life or make judgements on their lives or their beliefs. We haven't lived their lives, after all, so what makes us the expert?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Please do not assume that your battle with biology will have ended by the time you reach my decrepit age of 27 if you have not had kids by then. Likely it will not have. Does that make it easier to deal with other people? Umm. Let's call that a no.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

And a beautiful group it is.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

This appears to be the case from my perspective as well.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

We have no fundamental disagreement here. I'm merely objecting to the preponderance of shoulds and reallys in the above statement. It sometimes (well, actually often) happens that people become parents who were not "really, really ready" or did not "really, really want" to be parents. More often than not, it works out just fine. I can't agree that this is something that "should not" happen or that it is a terrible thing. It's just something that happens. Kids happen. Life happens.

The question of delaying childbearing is a different one, but I would say that one of the careers that one should definitely not postpone until 40 is motherhood. It's not terrible when it works out that way. It's just that if being a mom is the thing you want most in the world, don't put it at the end of the list after other things you care about less, because there is such a thing as a biological clock. Our society strongly pressures women to wait. It is no longer supportive of people starting young, and I really think that's a shame. When did we decide to send all our young adults back to high school?

[lutin.livejournal.com]

From the way this & other threads have gone: a big no.