Clothes. Again. Sigh.

[mrissa]

I was hoping for shorts that would fit my big Scando thighs -- and look, can I say how very annoying this culture is, in that regard? I would like to be able to express, neutrally, that my thighs are slightly bigger than the standard clothing designer assumption for the rest of my body size. I would not like to convey that I am whining, "my thiiiighs are so faaaaaaat," because in fact they are not, and not only that, but unlike many women with not-fat thighs, I am well aware that they are not. They are what happens when women of Scando ancestry work out: there is more muscle there than most clothing designers plan for. This is not an aesthetic problem for anybody even remotely relevant, including me. It's just a practical problem when purchasing clothing, particularly shorts, particularly the last couple of years, when I'm seeing a lot of shorts that are cut much closer to the body than seems strictly necessary. Long, extremely-fitted shorts do not flatter very many people. In fact, I theorize maybe one, total, over the age of 12. Fourteen if she's a late-bloomer. I'm just sayin', and they never listen to me.

(Ever wonder why I wear so many skirts when the weather permits? This is part of why: they almost always make skirts that acknowledge the existence of hips and/or thighs.)

Aaaaanyway. So I went to the girl jock online store and ordered a pair of shorts, on the theory that if anybody understands about the deficiencies of most clothing designers re: muscular legs, it would be the girl jock online store. (Or the other girl jock online store, but most of their shorts seemed like firmly clothes to work out in rather than clothes I could stop off for dinner in. And I don't need shorts to work out in. Got as many as I need, got 'em cheap at Target a million years ago.)

While I was there I poked around and decided to see how well their stuff will fit me, so I ordered two skirts and a dress along with the shorts. (This is the other reason I wear a lot of skirts/dresses: I am comfortable in them and like them, so when I'm looking for clothes, I look at them.) And the answer is: okayish. The shorts fit all right. One of the two skirts fit all right. The other skirt was cut higher in the waist, and as a result did not fit. And the dress looked fine as long as I didn't move. Like, at all. The minute I moved, it bunched and bagged, and you could see that it did not even slightly fit in the waist, and that it was not the sort of dress designed not to even slightly fit in the waist. It was just too darn big. Like they do.

So back those two things go, and I can have another pair of shorts from the girl jock online store, and that will do. Sort of. I am to be a godmother (EEEEEEEEEE!), and I have no idea what I will wear for the actual occasion. I also have no idea what I'm wearing to Minicon. On the up side, it's a con, so if I panic and fling on jeans and a bland top, no one will bat an eye. On the down side, it's a con: it's one of the few large social events where I care about the opinion of even a small fraction of the people in attendance. So it seems like a waste not to wear something fun, given that I actually do have things I consider fun to wear. But Minicon is hard to plan for because who knows what the weather will be like in Minnesota for Easter? No matter when Easter is, you really just don't know. One of you said, "I'm visiting Minnesota in April. Tell me there won't be snow." I could not make that promise. (Although this year -- harumph.) So -- I don't know. Sundress, sweater, sundress and sweater -- it's hard to say. And I don't really want to wear long-sleeved black items for Easter, which overlaps with Minicon, and I'm observing both. So...I really don't know, people. I'm making the "ackack what will I wear?" post early, but I expect to remain stumped.

Clothes. It's as I keep saying: if I didn't ever enjoy clothes, all this would be much easier. It's the expectation that I might like them that's the problem.

Comments

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

As I get older, my position on fashion trends I don't like -- such as, for instance, long, tight-fitting shorts -- is to dig in and wait for the next trend. It ain't no-how permanent.

My other response is to shop the various places where out-of-fashion items can be found: thrift stores, re-sale shops, and eBay.

Obviously if you want clothes that are currently fashionable and fit your body, this will not be helpful as a strategy.

As to what to wear to Minicon, you probably have time to get a custom salwar suit from India if you order it now. Comfortable as all get out, yet elegant. And fun layerable pieces -- vests, lightweight arty jackets and so forth -- work for most convention wear, and can be added to go over that too-dark-for-Easter-black-on-black look to make it not even remotely black-looking.

[grndexter.livejournal.com]

Something I've found in the US... people here have a hole in their brains where the words "tailor" and "seamstress" belong. ;-D

When our girls lived at home, we had dresses made for them because all the stuff in the stores were made for prepubescent sex fiends... or designed by window shopping child molesters. The hand made clothes were not NEARLY as expensive as we thought they'd be... in fact about the same as off the rack. Think about having your clothes made for you. (Discuss price before commissioning work!)

'Nuther thing. Pay attention to the labels in the clothes. They will have the country of manufacture on them. Then you can know how they will fit.
http://www.onlineconversion.com/clothing.htm

[writingortyping.livejournal.com]

They are what happens when women of Scando ancestry work out: there is more muscle there than most clothing designers plan for.

Amen. In my case, arms, too.

[marykaykare.livejournal.com]

One of the wonderful things about being an sf fan is never having to say, "But where would I weAar that?" Whatever you wear to a con is appropriate. Hmm. I haven't taken the purple leather corset for an outing in a while, perhaps I should bring that to Minicon. Only a corset requires help in donning and Jordin isn't going.

Of course, you have the huge advantage of living there so you *can* run back home if you forget something or change your mind about what you brought. Or bring lots more than you'll need to have alternatives. I think most of akirlu's suggestions are good. Since I'm going to be in town for 11 days and am only bringing one suitcase I'll probably have to pick one color scheme and go with that. Sigh.

MKK

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

I swear, the salwar kamiz sets I have save me a lot of thinking and trouble.

In my case, it's not that my thighs are that much bigger, but they're longer, and things wind up looking odd on me. (And we won't even go into the joys of having very long thin arms, and trying to find women's shirts....)

Who are they making clothes for this year? No living woman I know -- no one can find more than a few items that fit.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

I think I've been frustrated for a couple of years now and puzzled frustrated because I don't remember it being quite this tough before. I am getting close to the point of having almost nothing to decently wear out of the house.

[redbird]

It's not just Scando women who have thighs like that; I think I will go take a look at the sites you linked to. (I have one pair of cargo shorts I got on sale late last summer; one pair of ancient drawstring shorts from Deva; and plenty of shorts to work out in, all of which combined have zero pockets, so aren't good for much (if anything) besides the gym.

[von-krag.livejournal.com]

Umm, I guess seeing you in a chain bikini all day at Minicon isn't likely then? Oh well, I think you'd look kicka** w/a saber and thigh high boots to match.

[von-krag.livejournal.com]

On a more useful note I really like Cabelas and find their stuff for bigger critters like myself fits true. Here's a link to the woman's section of pants, shorts etc, hope it helps.http://tinyurl.com/ynjdhr In Minnesota they have stores in Owatonia, Rogers

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The problem with digging in and waiting for the next trend -- which is what I've been doing -- is that if you do it enough years in a row, you get into a vicious circle: you have nothing to supplement your old clothes, and something wears out. So then you have one thing fewer in the rotation, and you wear everything else slightly more often, and soon another thing gets a hole somewhere obtrusive, and then you have two things fewer in the rotation. Sigh.

What's even worse is when this vicious circle picks off your favorite garments first -- because, after all, you've been wearing them more than the others! they're your favorites! -- and leaves you with not enough clothes, none of which you like anyway.

(I am partially just bitter because it's the first spring in 15 years when I haven't had my green shorts, because they finally bit the dust. Sigh. They were such good shorts.)

I am not at all a salwar kamiz (kameez etc.) sort of girl, I'm afraid. I hate trousers, is the first, last, and all-important problem there.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I am glad that Hanna Andersson has sturdy, childlike clothing for children, but I'm sad that their slogan at Bigdale ("In Sweden, we let kids be kids") is there because so many other places are going for the mini-hooker look for little girls. I have some friends with three little girls in the house, and I have no idea how they manage to dress them off the rack without the word "hoochie" coming to mind, but they do. It's an heroic task.

But anyway: my mom is making a skirt for me this year, and she made me some trousers last year. She does professional-quality work, but finding fabric and patterns and making things and getting things fitted is a non-trivial time commitment at best, compared to trying on something I ordered on the internet and sending it back if it doesn't work.

Knowing which country of manufacture you're dealing with only helps if you're buying the wrong size of clothing. If the cut is all wrong, buying a different size won't help.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yep.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, packing for eleven days of Minnesota in late March/early April is hard. Fitting it all in one suitcase including toiletries, reading material, etc. etc. etc.? Uff da. I do not envy you that task, lady.

I am not staying at the hotel. (Oh, look! It's the conversation I always have at Minicon, starting early! I am amused.) We observe Easter, and it's important to markgritter to have me here to do so with him in the (sometimes extremely early) morning. So no hotel room for me. We've thought about it for Friday night/Saturday morning and may eventually decide that that's the thing to do, but not so far.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

That possibility was only in your head, and could probably have stayed there.

Anyway, I would not go out and buy a new saber when I have an axe sitting right here. (It does not appear to be "to grind," but everybody should behave themselves just in case.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

No, most things I say about being of Scandahuvian descent are true of other groups as well. It's just that they're true of us on the way. Alas, but the stores I linked to aren't much help for avoiding the long narrow shorts trend. But they had one thing that worked, so I ordered a second pair in a different color.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Thanks; I do know of them, although they, like REI, have disappointed me so far.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Oddly, that link takes me to a comment of naomikritzer"s on her own journal.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Somewhere along the line, the clothing designers decided that sleeve length for women's clothing is determined by size. Slender women are not tyrannosaurs! And no one gains weight in their arm bones!

Do you find that 3/4-length sleeves are more forgiving, or do they highlight the problem? For some women I know who are extremely tall, short dresses make them look like 12-year-olds who just hit their growth spurts; for others, short dresses show plenty of leg but do not look funny in doing so. I can imagine that some people would have the same deal with sleeves each way.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

That's very frustrating indeed.

[buymeaclue.livejournal.com]

The thing about REI is, not all the clothing there is the REI line. I'm sure you know this, since you've been there. One of the nice things about working there was the employee discount, so I had occasion to try out various things, and in turn the discovery that prAna shirts fit me brilliantly. I adore them. The company started out, I think, with climbing and yoga gear. They understand the shoulder thing.

Their pants, however, do not fit me at all. At all. For definitions of 'at all' that include 'I can't even get them on.' Except for the one style of capris (I now own them in three colors) that is the most comfortable kind of pants I own.

It's kind of funny, except for the part where it kind of makes me want to cry.

[buymeaclue.livejournal.com]

(Um. I should perhaps clarify that this was meant as commiseration rather than suggestion. Part of the reason the prAna tops fit me well is that they seem designed for women with shoulders but not chests.)

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

Now I have Sir Mixalot playing in my mental track. :P It is perplexing why people confuse "I am not built like a fashion model" with "I hate my body". Some of us don't yearn after fashion model bodies even if a lot of clothing seems to be built with that shape in mind.

This is not a promising season for clothes for me either and it's been preceeded by several other seasons of not-good clothes. I really need to buy something as all the old favorites are getting threadbare but there's nothing *me* to buy. I could sew in my theoretical spare time if only that spare time was more actual and less theoretical.

[fgherman.livejournal.com]

Have you tried Lands End? They have a lot of stuff for women with real bodies.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Their custom jeans worked beautifully for me before I found the off-the-rack jeans I buy now, because they only say they go down to a certain point, but they'll bring the waist in farther than that if you ask. But mostly the real bodies they have stuff for are bigger than my real body -- their size 2 is bigger than many size 4s elsewhere, and they have no 0.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Are shorts not trousers? Are we not men?

In any event, depending on why you hate trousers, salwar might not push that button -- the way they fit is not very much like any regular trousers I've ever worn.

But yes, waiting for fashion to change can lead to wardrobe crises. I went through a period where seemingly all my silk blouses went blooie all at once. Right now I seem to be losing the battle to maintain a rotation of respectable jeans. Fortunately, Two Big Blondes are my friend, and I can still find used pairs I like okay. The trick is managing to get over there of a Saturday.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I've only had one salwar, so perhaps it's atypical, but it hit the anti-trousers buttons.

[laurel]

C'mon, Minn-StF is all about fashion, so you'd best be sure to pick the right thing for Minicon. I'm just saying, is all. (Heh).

I've never been able to find clothes that fit properly-- not when I was in my teens and early 20s and I was super skinny, not now when I'm shopping at Lane Bryant (et al).

When I was wearing the small sizes, I couldn't find things that would fit my hips.

With plus-size clothes, the assumption seems to be that plus-sized = large breasted. Er. No. Not always.

And yeah, I can rant about clothes and sizing and all that lame stuff. As most women can.

The weirdest "what do I wear?" dilemna I've had was years ago. It was St. Patrick's Day on a Sunday and on that day I was going to church with my family, we were leaving straight from church to go to an afternoon Timberwolves game, and then I was walking across the street from the game to see Boiled in Lead at First Avenue. And of course it's March in Minnesota. I think I ended up with a casual dress of some sort that almost worked.

[brooksmoses]

This may be useful information, indeed; tiger_spot has similar problems with getting jeans that fit right. (What off-the-rack jeans do you buy now? That could also be useful to pass along.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I buy J. Jill's tried-and-true fit right now, but the problem is, they have changed the cut somewhat in the last two years, and it fits less well. I mean, they're still wearable. But I'm a little frustrated with them for labeling a couple of fits for their jeans and pants ("tried-and-true" and "authentic," for which the waist is too big for me, unless I'm remembering in the wrong order) and then changing them around in terms of fit and not just in terms of style details.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I think "almost worked" is a grand achievement for that assortment of activities.

[pariyal.livejournal.com]

N is large-breasted (C cup at thirteen) but petite otherwise. She's very lucky to like loose shirts.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

At thirteen, I was bustier than that, and not otherwise big. Liking loose shirts was not a matter of luck but of self-protection.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

So, what, specifically, is the anti-trousers button opposed to?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I dislike having most kinds of fabric around my body between ribs and knees. So trousers are the worst for this, then shorts, and then skirts.

I am built such that I look extremely pregnant if I try to only wear dresses that hang off the bustline, too, and I object to looking pregnant until the day sometime in the future when I am.

I am Just Difficult, I'm afraid.