Social skills

[mrissa]

Some of my friends have a kid who's switched from homeschooling to public schooling for various reasons. (Homeschooling has served him well and it looks like the public school in question will also serve him well, so I really don't want to get into a homeschooling vs. public schools vs. private schools debate here.) He's a bright and self-motivated kid. And this will be relevant in a minute: he has Asperger's Syndrome. I've been thinking a lot about the transition he's going through, and it seems like a lot of people are saying this will be good for him to learn social skills.

What I want to know is: what do you think those social skills are? What social skills would you like a kid to know when he/she makes the transition to adulthood? Concretely. Specifically. This kid is very bright, but I think that what our culture does with kids like him is the equivalent of sending a kid off to school and saying, "Okay, now you should be learning math. We're not going to tell you where the math books are. They're somewhere in the building, and they have something to do with one of your classes. Go learn math." "What kind of math?" "Y'know, math. It's important. The same math everyone else your age has learned."

Here's an example of the sort of social skill I mean: I think that it's important for an adult to be able to approach strangers with a specific professional question. To be able to walk up to someone at a conference, for example, and say, "Hi. Are you here for the x conference? Oh, good -- do you know where registration is?" and to generally carry on the rest of that conversation. Some people will find this difficult and others will think it's great fun and a marvelous opportunity to talk to other people in their field. But everyone should know how to do it, what general set of words to use etc.

Or another social skill: an adult should be able to express to another adult that they disagree but are willing to drop the subject at hand.

Some of the examples in my head are handled terribly by our current school system, but the fact that people aren't learning them doesn't make them less valuable. I'm curious, though, about what you all think this "learn social skills" thing actually means, or should mean. What are we taking for granted that "of course everyone knows" that may well be learned behavior on the part of neurotypicals? If you've got Asperger's yourself, what social skills have you learned the hard way, or what did you wish someone had explained to you in your late teens and early twenties?

Comments

[nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com]

Recognizing the subtle and not-so-subtle non-verbal cues of either interest or boredom is important, I'd say (though schools aren't necessarily good for that).

Developing a sense of humor (punnery doesn't count!) is one that school can be good for.

A tangential reply

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

Hmm. This makes me think of some of the skills/rules mentioned in "New Rules for Business" (or something like that). I recommended it to an advanced client from Japan, because it includes really detailed stuff like "at least make eye contact and nod or wave when someone you recognize is within 10 feet of you" and "say 'hi' if they come within 5 feet" or something similarly detailed. I haven't been able to find a good current generic social skills book for international residents of the US yet, but if there were a good one, I wonder if some of it wouldn't be useful for people with Asperger's. NOT because they're like people from another country, but because such a book would be more likely to quantify things and give details rather than making assumptions. Some college-level interpersonal communication textbooks might work well for someone with high-level reading skills.

I homeschooled through high school and got my social skills (what I have of them) by GMing a weekly RPG, and Girl Scouts. ;p

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

I don't have Asperger's but I seem to share a lot of traits with high functioning Autistic type people.

I wish that someone would have rehearsed with me the whole social chit-chat thing when I was young instead of leaving me to work out for myself that some questions have not only stock answers but stock follow up questions, like the typical American "how are you" exchange.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Oh yes: signs of interest or boredom are extremely important. Good one.

And tying that in with your second one: the non-verbal cues people use to indicate the difference between "that was not funny, but whatever" and "that was not funny, and I now don't think I like you as much." Important stuff.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I find that the typical American "how are you" exchange varies regionally, but you're right that there are some strong commonalities.

I think social chitchat has gotten cultural short shrift for awhile, and the result has not been that there has been no need for "small talk" but that people have less idea of how to handle it. I think "small talk" has broadened in type greatly over the last 30-40 years, but it's also being treated as instinctive where clearly it isn't for many people.

[brooksmoses]

Although you don't want to get into a homeschooling vs. public schools debate, and I don't either, and this is somewhat in that direction ... I'm reminded of this quote from our local elementary-school principal (or possibly it was the superintendent of schools) when he learned that my mother would be homeschooling me and my brother: "Oh, what a great way for them to learn social skills! We don't have time to teach kids those here."

More thoughts when I've had dinner and am coherent.

(Incidentally, I also did the transitioning from homeschooling to public school thing, in 10th grade. If the kid in question happens to want to talk to someone who went through something similar, at some point, I'd be glad to offer.)

Re: A tangential reply

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, I think that knowing what "social skills" are useful would be helpful to someone like my friends' son regardless of whether he was homeschooling or going to public or private school -- it's just that the transition between types of schools means that more people were bringing it up. I hope you do find one for international residents, though, because it sounds really useful.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Brooks; I'm sure his parents will see this comment.

Re: A tangential reply

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, it's true, people were always bringing it up when they heard I was homeschooling.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

By "transition to adult" I'm assuming this is roughly HS. Different ages have different social skills.

"Learning social skills" is often synonymous with "assimilation", and it isn't. Basically, he has to learn how to deal with people who are less than honest. Sometimes they simply have their own agenda and his is secondary; sometimes they're out and out lying. Homeschool, the teacher and fellow students are on his side. In Real Life (tm), that's simply not the case.

Sincerity. If he can learn to fake that, he's got it made.

How to handle drugs, from tobacco and alcohol to harder stuff. This may be as easy as learning how to say "no" and not succumbing to peer pressure, but I wouldn't count on it. He needs to know where to go for information and counseling, and who he can trust not to talk to his parents.

Girls. The beginning of a lifetime of study.

Dunno how Asperger's affects any of this.

[sensational.livejournal.com]

Personal space rules, or how to get a sense of how comfortable someone is with proximity.

Also, appropriate conversation topics for different settings.

Those two came from working with a high functioning autistic kid a while back.

I wish someone had taught me when I was younger:

How to express a difference of opinion without being insulting.

The power of the "I feel" statement when trying to resolve a problem with someone else.

When someone is angry at you, it's not actually the end of the world. Or: How to cope with someone yelling at you. I wonder if it'd be a meditation class.

[telophase.livejournal.com]

I remember the friend, post-college, who asked me if I thought my mother would marry again while my father was terminally ill, but still very much alive.

I rather wish I'd told her how insensitive and clueless that was, instead of stammering something about how I didn't know if she would or not.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

And, related to your dad's weasel friend, ways to deal with authority figures who are putting you in an uncomfortable situation. This doesn't have to be the boss who is sexually harassing you or asking you to fudge the accounting in order to be unpleasant and need handling.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I believe this is the sort of situation for which I created the, "Oh *hell* no!" icon. Sheesh! Some people's children!

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Our culture does pretty poorly with how to figure out whether you want to use a given drug or not. It's assumed that everyone will want to use caffeine, for example.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I am still not good with people yelling at me. It is not acceptable behavior in the subculture I was raised, and I intend to raise kids in a similar one.

But yes, variability of setting is a big one.

[evangoer.livejournal.com]

++ to what nilhilistic_kid said above. Understanding non-verbal cues -- and then there's the slightly harder skill, generating accurate non-verbal cues back. I think that is the main thing that neurotypicals take for granted -- a signal that *you* can process with almost zero effort takes a lot more work for someone with Asperger's to parse.

Anyway, your math analogy is very apt -- I'd say non-verbal cues are basically the equivalent of arithmetic. It's a prerequisite for learning much of the rest.

[haddayr.livejournal.com]

I believe I have met the young man in question, and he already has very good social skills when playing with younger kids and speaking to adults.

Here are the social skills I think everyone needs to know and that I believe Aspies have trouble picking up instinctively:

1. The ability to read physical cues to notice when you are monopolizing the conversation and/or the other person is not interested in what you are saying.

2. The ability to really listen as others talk, and take an interest in what they are saying.

3. The ability to look people in the eye in a way which approximates comfortability when you are meeting/ addressing them.

4. The ability to moderate the tone and volume of your speaking voice.

5. The ability to understand other nonverbal cues such as gesture and facial expression to read people's moods.

I could go on. But here's the thing. I don't believe that Aspie's can easily learn them just from hanging around a bunch of neurotypical kids. That's why so many Aspies need social skills groups where they are literally TAUGHT how to read these things, as if they are taking a biology/anthropology course.

The way being around a bunch of neurotypical kids will help is if the kid is already getting some sort of teaching/training in social skills and then he can have a chance to practice them, and to see other kids' reactions when he forgets to use them.

[telophase.livejournal.com]

That particular friend had a very strange blend of social savvy and cluelessness. She could network like a star, and on the level you communicate with people you meet only in social situations and work functions, she excelled. But when it came to closer interpersonal relationships, she fell down, being unable to figure out why she couldn't ever get a date, and creating many socially awkward moments like the one above (though none quite as outrageously inappropriate as that).

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

At least in my experience, now very much out of date, there was *zero* attempt to actually *teach* any social skills. By being around a larger group of people, there was some possibility of learning some observationally, if you were so inclined (and even some benefits to doing so). Generally, moving outside your family you will encounter a much wider range of opinions and experiences than you will inside.

I've had conversations with people over the years, and read some stuff, that really *has* communicated quite a lot about expectations and signalling conventions; possibly really trying to teach this stuff could be very valuable. (I'm sure they do a *great* job on Beta Colony.) On the other hand, our public schools are likely to try to use it to enforce a mainstream conformity that fits really *really* poorly for some people. On the third hand, the students are likely to repurpose the skills for their own needs anyway.

Lots of people have talked about appropriate ways for the person to express himself, but I think it's much more important to learn to read these cues in others (also, this may suggest ways to convey the information himself anyway). But being a little too blunt seems, to me, to be less serious than being clueless about interpreting what *other* people are conveying.

To DavE's suggestion that the student can count on the other students and teacher being "on his side" in a homeschooling situation I can't find an answer any more indirect than "bullshit". One would certainly *hope* for that, and it will be true quite a lot, but one cannot *count* on it. Also, there has been plenty of time for various dysfunctional interaction patterns to have evolved in the home, and getting some more people involved gives a chance to recognize and bypass or even break those. (Obviously that's very much a property of the *specific* case, and these comments are general since the question was general, merely sparked by and not actually *about* the specific case.)

[barondave.livejournal.com]

And sugar, aspertame, aspirin, etc. You are what you eat.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

That gap between what people say and what it means: sounding it and acting accordingly. A lot of which is...body language, and knowing what our cultural euphemisms are -- what kind of tone and posture and content means blow-off-steam bitching and which is I want someone to fix this.

Basically, the art of reading people. *g*

[howl-at-the-sun.livejournal.com]

Learning when it is appropriate to be quiet, and *thinking* about this before opening your mouth and saying something.

Also, topics of conversation. That is what stopped me from talking to people for quite some time. I could not assume that most of them would be game for a discussion of my current obsession, and I was not good at the "Where are you from?" sort of question.

And! how to start a conversation.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

I think a social skill that is useful and graceful is learning how to introduce yourself to someone in a social situation, such as a meeting, a party or on the job. The corollary is learning to introduce other people to each other in a social setting. It's fine to ease into a conversation, but at some point I want to know who I'm speaking with.

I learned that from my parents, not school. But it's come in handy all my life.

[timprov.livejournal.com]

Basically, he has to learn how to deal with people who are less than honest.

This was the first thing that came to my mind, as well. Learning how to determine who to trust.