At the front desk

[mrissa]

At the front desk of the chiropractor's today, another patient stopped me to ask if she'd heard me correctly when I told the receptionist I was a writer. I agreed that I was. She started questioning me about how I go about it, quickly narrowing her specifications to how to get published (without, apparently, writing anything at all -- at first I thought she couldn't describe what she wanted to write, but it turns out she didn't know what she wanted to write). Okay, so that's bad enough, but plenty of people are in love with the idea of Being An Author without actually wanting to auth.

But then the [white] receptionist said to my [black] fellow patient, cheerfully, "Oh, and you'd be a shoe-in, because they're really into that black stuff these days. Y'know, multiculturalism and stuff." And my jaw dropped, and I thought, "Oh, Lord, this is the bit where this woman rips the receptionist's head off and feeds it to the squirrels." Because that's what I'd have done, for heaven's sake, and what just about every other writerbeing I know would have done.

Instead, my fellow patient nodded and said, "Oh, yeah, that's good." It is? Oh. Well. My mistake. I couldn't imagine a situation in which it would be appropriate to say, "they're really into that black stuff these days," but apparently I would have been wrong. Especially with "you'd be a shoe-in."

I'm still appalled, frankly.

Comments

Metaphorical levels

[mackatlaw.livejournal.com]

We are all at different levels in our life and different places, and some people are on much different places than others. Yes. I'm not even sure it's a hierarchy, which implies superiority, as much as a "I am here, and you are much further away" thing.

Sometimes when asked to explain the legal field, I feel this way. It's not that it can't be understood or explained, but it's an alien experience if you haven't been around it much.

Mack

Re: Metaphorical levels

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say there's a general superiority going on here, but I would say that it is better not to assume that you know someone's interests based on their ethnicity or that ethnicity does or should trump talent.

Re: Metaphorical levels

[joelrosenberg.livejournal.com]

Well, sure. The other thing, of course, is that when it comes to writing, talent trumps ethnicity and other (in this context) irrelevancies, by a lot. If it was true that it was easy to get "black stuff" (whatever that means is another discussion) published, it's entirely possible that Raheem "R-Dog" X, hypothetical bestselling "black stuff" author, could actually turn out to be an albino Presbyterian Irish woman, after all.

Orthogonally, years ago, Longyear and I were talking about collaborating on a romance novel, to be set in a Pittsburgh steel mill. We had a title (Love's Blazing Inferno), and a psuedonym (Bambi Levine), and if we'd actually gotten around to writing the thing, it could have been published.

Re: Metaphorical levels (ethnicity)

[mackatlaw.livejournal.com]

I agree absolutely.

Mack

Ethnicity and interests

[mackatlaw.livejournal.com]

More thoughtful reply on interests based on ethnicity: I remember my voir dire experience, helping my father choose jurors for a small automobile case. He chose from his career background based on theories about race and social class. Blacks are good for a plaintiff, because they will tend to see him or her as the underdog against a corporation, while engineers are bad for a plaintiff because they know too many numbers and will try to second-guess the expert witness. I've heard other lawyers say this too and read it in places.

I don't know if that's right or not. The lawyers may be. But it still bothered me. I didn't like it, but if I had to choose my own jury, how would I do it? Picking juries is an art based on conventional wisdom, pop sociology, and personal observation. Once you've heard convention, it's hard to defy it for fear of being wrong.

Maybe I think too much.

Mack

Re: Ethnicity and interests

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how I think juries ought to be selected, but the whole experience appears to currently be a "gut feeling" exercise on the attorney's part, and I'm not sure that's optimal. I would hope that your dad could recognize generalities like that for what they are and could at least try to assess people individually as well as in groups.

I don't think the problem is thinking too much. You may be thinking in a suboptimal direction for an attorney who wants to win cases or who wants justice done. I don't know that part. But I don't think thinking too much is really a problem here.

Juries

[mackatlaw.livejournal.com]

There are specialists who do nothing but advise attorneys on picking juries, but in your average small case (small being relative when it comes to verdicts and importance: we were asking for $70,000 for damages), there's not much time to strike the jury. At least, in last months' trial, we were given half an hour deliberation plus the hour or so spent having the jurors be sworn in and answer our questions. Dad used personal analysis and then fell back on generalities. Hard to say what I'd do myself, though I liked people he didn't. But then, the ones I liked may have had more to do with my own background then with the needs of my client....

I don't know, it's definitely an advanced people assessing skill. (That or mere divination.) Something about this system feels off to me, but I can't put my finger on it without more experience. I'm glad to hear you don't think I've overthinking; when I get more exposure to the matter, I'll post the results and invite discussion.

Mack

[gwynnega]

::is appalled::

[writingortyping.livejournal.com]

Hm, yes - I took a friend to the hospital for outpatient surgery on Wednesday. As we were waiting and chatting in recovery, the nurse who was making sure Marilee was set to go home suddenly said, "What did we do for manicures before the fall of Saigon?" I wanted to snap something like, "Well, I think we did our own racist nails."

[madwriter.livejournal.com]

If you were in several areas near where I live, the person in the next booth would've said something about how before Vietnam they got such good manicures from those nice colored ladies.

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

Gack.

Of course, I was mulling over some "black experience" books recently, and realizing that, to judge by them, I've never had the authentic black experience, and don't have an authentic black voice.

Oh, dear.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I've heard that from more than one person about the "black experience." Nobody I've ever heard to seems to have to worry about not being "authentic" as a "white voice" (and when did "inauthentic" become a bludgeon-word for dealing with those we dislike or disagree with?). I also haven't heard much of the "authentic voice" shtick aimed at Asian or Hispanic or Native American authors, but it may be there and I just may not hear it from the people who feel like they're being labeled inauthentic in that regard.

[mechaieh.livejournal.com]

I'm not prominent enough to catch hell for it yet, is what. ;-) (That, and having an anglo name.)

In school, what actually put me in the minority was being far more interested in dead white men's poetry/drama than women's studies and colonial lit. One person (another Asian) challenged me on why I was studying Middle English romances instead of Chinese literature, and others clearly thought that anyone interested in medieval lit without focusing on gender oppression was weird. *shrug* The funny thing was getting this kind of disapproval from white men as well as other women, and running into some professors with very fixed ideas on the racist/patriarchical subtexts of various classics (hilarious in retrospect -- I mean, what's more ludicrous than an elderly white male prof telling a twentysomething Asian chick what the proper minority-conscious reading should be of a text -- but back then it drove me completely nuts being exhorted to focus on authors' shortcomings instead of what they were trying to do).

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

I keep thinking of the fuss some reporters made when Gloria Steinem (I think it was) turned 50, and kept telling her, "You don't look 50". Her response was, "Well, take a good look because this is what 50 looks like." I think my response to being told I'm not a "typical" whatever or haven't had an "authentic" experience is pretty similar.

I do a lot of things that don't stereotypically go together, so if told, for example, "Jews don't do sports," my answer has to be "Well, obviously we do."

(I think I'd have been with Mrissa in ripping the receptionist's head off.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Major, major pair of pet peeves, mostly in dealing with my mother dealing with other people:

1) "You don't look 50." Yes she does. She looks good. She looks 50. These two things are not mutually exclusive. Good does not equal younger. I would not look better if I looked 12.

2) "You look very good for a woman of your age." And that person looked pretty functional for a jackass of that caliber. Honestly.

[flewellyn.livejournal.com]

And that person looked pretty functional for a jackass of that caliber. Honestly.

For this, you win major points. Redeemable for valuable prizes!

[mechaieh.livejournal.com]

(I think I'd have been with Mrissa in ripping the receptionist's head off.)

I dunno. Sometimes when people say stupid or ignorant things to me I do simply say something bland like "Oh, that's good" so that the conversation stops there. Particularly, for instance, if I were a patient and they were a receptionist who could fuck with my appointments or medical file.

(I'm not saying that's healthy. Growing up with parents who grew up under martial law doesn't do nice things to one's brain.)

[ktempest.livejournal.com]

I guess it all depends on where you're coming from. I might let a comment liek that slide on some occasions, depending on my mood or the situation. but, many times, i feel like crap like that needs to be challenged, if only for the good of society.

[ktempest.livejournal.com]

OMG, you are one of MY people! Where have you been all my life?

Seriously, I feel exactly the same.

Say, what?

[dlandon.livejournal.com]

I would be so offended if I were her! But, apparently, being prejudiced is okay if it's in your favor?

And I hate people who do that whole - "how do I get published?" - thing like that. There are several good books out there, if you were really interested...Gah. I knew I was in for it when I got my first, "I've always wanted to write a novel about..." the *day* I sold my novel.

- D

Re: Say, what?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I'm much more tolerant of the people who have always wanted to write a novel about something specific than of the ones who just want to have their name on the cover of a book, regardless of what's in it.

Re: Say, what?

[madwriter.livejournal.com]

That's usually how I tell the posers from the serious. The serious will talk enthusiastically about what they want to write about (though as I'm sure you know, that's not always a good sign), at which point I encourage them to write it down and once done, I say, I'll show them how to research the markets.

Then there was the woman who once said I should do "real work" when I talked about wanting to be a writer. I asked her what makes her think it wasn't real work. She replied, "It's easy, isn't it? All you do is sit there and type." To which I said, "Then write a book, and come back and tell me how easy it was." I don't know if she actually tried or not, but she never said a word to me about it again.

Re: Say, what?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, there are plenty of posers who can tell you all about the book they're going to write and how fabulous it is. The trouble is, they're hard to tell from people who are about to write fabulous books.

What I hate is when people who haven't written a word patronize me and my work based on the conviction that if they had written a book when I did, theirs would have been good enough to be published by now.

[palinade.livejournal.com]

I find it more funny that the person had an interest in getting published than in wanting to know how to write stories or books.

How does one get published? Write, write some more, submit, submit, get rejected, revise, write some more, submit, get accepted, write some more. Lather, rinse, repeat. Heh.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I can almost see why some inexperienced people think it shouldn't work that way. If you are going to be, say, somebody's secretary, you don't go around filing their papers and hope that they like it enough to give you money. You interview and they tell you, "I want these papers filed by date, then alphabetically within each month's folder." Some kinds of writing even work that way. It's just not a good way to bet, is all.

[madwriter.livejournal.com]

It seems that people either figure this out, or they end up thinking that there's a conspiracy in mainstream publishing to keep out Talented New Writers and that only Publish America really loves them.

[madwriter.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of the library patron (not my Mrs. :) ) who got so knicker-twisted when Strange Horizons turned down a story of mine that not only had Japanese characters, but also was set in a Japanese-American internment camp during WWII. "How could they turn it down?" she cried. "It was multicultural! That's all the thing these days!"

I just simply replied, "I think I needed to tighten up my writing."

[ktempest.livejournal.com]

If it had been me, I would not have been able to restrain my inner Angry Black Woman 9tm) and there would have been an "incident".

Just sayin'.