mrissa: (writing everywhere)
[personal profile] mrissa
Someone asked me about which mythological characters are my favorites, and someone else asked about fairy tale characters. I am not actually a purist about which is whom, so they're going right here together. I have surely forgotten half of them.

I always liked Skade when I was small. Skade is still my favorite. The bit with Loki's beard and the goat made her seem like she had quite a lot of power; now that I know more about the culture in question, it was the law's power, not hers personally, but that doesn't make me less fond of the story. I liked that she was the goddess of skiing and matter-of-factly associated with men and male gods -- seemingly at will, even from the euphemistic phrasing of my childhood mythology books. It was a nice contrast with the Greek myths that were always on about who was and was not a virgin. I liked the idea of her hunting with Ull, god of snowshoes and magic -- I liked Ull. I still like Ull. And I like Sigyn, because it's What You Do if your spousal unit gets himself into that kind of mess, holding the bowl to catch the venom until the end of time, telling him not to whine when you have to empty the bowl, and anyway Baldr was probably annoying to have around at parties and family gatherings. I like Tyr the law-god, with the hundred-headed mother, or was it thousand-headed? I like that that's where the law comes from. I like the intimate familial relationship of law with human chaos.

Actually I like most of the obscurer Norse gods.

Also I like Lemminkainen's mother, even though she doesn't get her own name, because gathering the chopped up pieces of your kid out of Death's river to start him over again takes some sisu. And I like Death's dumpy daughter just because. I have some affinity for Ilmarinen, and for Aino. Stubborn fishy Aino. I rewrote her story in "Väinämöinen and the Singing Fish." And she gets her own name. Hey. I also have a good deal more sympathy for Louhi, gat-toothed dame, than Mr. Lönnrot wanted me to.

I like all the Saami goddesses of the different doors, and the blood man and the alder man Leibolmai, and Rota, the god of death, who wants your horses and your frogs, or who at least will take them in trade for yourself, for a time.

I like Bedwyr, not Lancelot, and I like Gawain even better, and I have no use whatever for Arthur himself; Arthur just sort of goes up there and is and occasionally causes trouble with past and current bits of idiocy.

I like the wise pike, and I'm lukewarm on the subject of Athena, but her owl can stay. And I like Saraswati.

I am exceptionally fond of St. Thomas the Doubter. Nice Haugean Girls don't have patron saints, but if I did, I would pick the Doubter and the Magdalen, and also Martha, because I know what it's like to have other people trying to tell you about how damn spiritual they are when the dishes need washing, like you can't listen to any Messiah worth his salt and wash dishes at the same time. It's not like they had a vacuum to run. Sheesh. Although I would confess a fondness for someone who turned on the vacuum just when Jesus was about to go on about the meek again: "Oh, what was that, Christ? I'm sorry, there was something on the rug, wanted to catch it before it set in. No, do go on, I'll catch up -- you'd gotten as far as hunger and thirst for righteousness. I like that part."

Also I have made a note from something I read, and it says, "Colima artists thought ducks were greatly spiritually capable," and I love the spiritually capable ducks.

I like Arachne, because her gods were bastards, and she likely knew it, and she did her best damn weaving anyway.

I like the twelve dancing princesses, and the boy who goes east of the sun and west of the moon, and also I like little two-eyes.

I like Janet in almost every Tam Lin. Sometimes I like Tam Lin, too, and often I like Thomas the Rhymer.

I like the plucky girl with the beautiful boyfriend and the squirrels in her pants.

Your turn.

Date: 2006-01-12 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wilfulcait.livejournal.com
I like "sisu" as a virtue.

Date: 2006-01-12 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Not an unlimited virtue, I'm afraid. I have a friend who refers to her mother-in-law and sister-in-law as The Sisu Twins when they're Being Like That at each other. I get the sense that she loves them both, and that she likes them both even better when they're not being The Sisu Twins.

Date: 2006-01-12 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madwriter.livejournal.com
>>I like Bedwyr, not Lancelot, and I like Gawain even better, and I have no use whatever for Arthur himself; Arthur just sort of goes up there and is and occasionally causes trouble with past and current bits of idiocy.<<

I'll have to autograph you a copy of my Camelot book then--Bedwyr/Bedivere gets a big role, Lancelot's cameos don't make him look so good, and Arthur is already dead. On the other hand, so is Gawain, but it's give-and-take.

As for Norse gods, my private nickname in college was Bragi, bestowed upon my by [livejournal.com profile] kittykatya. Kittykatya herself was Loki, and [livejournal.com profile] dravon, my girlfriend at the time, was Skadi. (We also hung out with [livejournal.com profile] partiallyclips, whose real last name is Balder, but we could never bring ourselves to give him such a light-filled nickname too.)

Date: 2006-01-12 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
I like Braggi, too. I'm afraid I find Loki more interesting than likeable, though.

Date: 2006-01-12 09:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stillsostrange.livejournal.com
Yes. Loki is one of those people who is much more entertaining when he's not interacting with you. He was certainly more fun before I started a story about him.

Date: 2006-01-12 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
I thought having him disappear in Dwarf's Blood Mead would make my life easier. It turns out that having a disappeared Loki is not actually any easier on the author than having Loki around.

You kinda want your eye on the little booger....

Date: 2006-01-12 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stillsostrange.livejournal.com
Hell, I have him chained down and he's still a bastard. Shockingly enough, the first story-bit he gave we was in fact a lie.

Date: 2006-01-12 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
When he's chained down for me, it's Sigyn who goes making the trouble. And how.

Sigh.

Date: 2006-01-25 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madwriter.livejournal.com
I can handle "unlikeable" if there's enough "interesting".

Date: 2006-01-12 04:37 pm (UTC)
jenett: Big and Little Dipper constellations on a blue watercolor background (Default)
From: [personal profile] jenett
Oooh. I like this. Despite coming at it from a slightly weird perspective, with the whole Pagan thing.

I started, as a child, with the Greeks. Athena, I liked, in what has, the last few years, turned into a sort of long-distance admiration. Artemis - yes. Changeable, quickly, sometimes, but changeable within the bounds of a river or a lake. Different facets, but they add up in amazing ways for her.

Prometheus, in at least some of the stories. The bravery to search for fire, and the courage to say "Yo, that's stupid." a few times.

Medea. I've always liked Medea. I'm not quite sure why, because she's not exactly a nice person in most stories. But I do. I'd love to have dinner with her, as long as I was the one who did the cooking.

Penelope. My parents almost named me that. And Odysseus. I've been an Odysseus fan-girl since my father first told me the stories to me when I was tiny.

Persephone. And I've an increasing fondness for Hecate, helped not the least by her apparent fondness for me in a "You're not Mine, but people who are care for you" sort of way. And Janus.

I know less of the Norse Gods (or the stories from that part of the world) than I probably should, and therefore don't have any particular fondnesses, though I agree about Aino.

Hmm. I have a general appreciation for British lake, river, and well and forest deities/spirits/and such. Pretty much any of them.

In Egypt, I have a growing amusement about the jackal gods, brought on by people I'm close to working with them. I like the stories, but I'm glad they're not paying much attention to me. Bast is just cool.

Saints ... I'm still fond of my confirmation saint, which was Cecilia. There's great stories about her. I'm also terribly fond of the story of Saint Christina the Astonishing. (http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintc80.htm). I like your bit about Martha.

Vivian. And Merlin, in small doses. And some versions of Taliesin (where he has more sense than stupidity), but not all of them. I always feel sorry for Mark, but generally only like Tristan and Isolde in the Gottfried version (especially the "No man has been between my legs" bit...)

Janet. Because, duh, it's where I get Jenett from, in large part. And the woman in Twa Magicians.

Date: 2006-01-12 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
I knew that different people reading this would see the stories as "theirs" in different ways, yep. And I do, too, depending on which story we're discussing.

I have said this often in different places, so apologies if you've heard it before: I think one of the main reasons Norse myth resonates better with me than more southern myths is the attitude about knowledge/wisdom. Prometheus is eternally punished for bringing fire. (I like him. It's the other gods I'm not keen on.) Faust makes a deal with the devil for knowledge, and is damned. Odin, on the other hand, trades his eye for wisdom, and it's a good trade. It's worth it. Yes, it's a large trade, a difficult one, but he isn't cheated out of wisdom and left with nothing, and he isn't punished for trying it. Also, he's a god who sought wisdom himself, not one who smites those who seek it.

I like Daedalus. Engineer. Does not exceed the specs. Exceeding the specs is not glorious, it's dumb. If you want to fly higher, get to safety and work on better wings for next time. Test things in a controlled environment, not when you're attempting to escape and they can get you to safety perfectly adequately.

There is a reason I never considered a career as a test pilot.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] columbina.livejournal.com
You've encapsulated something that I always had trouble articulating as a child. I always made it out that I liked the Norse gods better because they were more benign and less pissy than the Greek ones - except that wasn't quite true because the Norse gods certainly had their capricious and evil moments too (even putting aside Loki, who made a career of it). I think what I was always trying to get at was the difference you describe - the Greek gods are saying "Do it our way and don't think too much, it's dangerous," and the Norse gods are saying, "Learn to think more, it may be dangerous but it will work out to everyone's benefit in the end."

Unfortunately, in terms of contemporary, real-world religion, my cynicism leads me to conclude that the Greek method has won.

Also, I love the comment about not exceeding the specs. Never thought of it quite that way. Icarus as reckless hotshot test pilot!

I love all plucky hero(ine)s. There needs to always be a youngest son, ideally named Jack, and he needs to be somewhat unsure of himself but always ready to win via the Good and Unorthodox Road.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
We haven't hit Ragnarok yet: nobody has won.

Date: 2006-01-12 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] columbina.livejournal.com
Touche. Is far in the lead, then.

Date: 2006-01-12 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Oh, and I'm not keen on Tristan and Isolde, either.

Date: 2006-01-12 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windcedar.livejournal.com


Heh. I always liked Medea too. You don't mess with her. Not like, say, Ariadne, who just lets her boyfriend get away with betraying her, and conveniently dies or commits suicide or is rewarded for her womanly weakness by being married by a god, but regardless, certainly never gets back at Theseus.

Of course, I also have a certain fondness for the Morrigan, which may say something about me...

Date: 2006-01-12 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Nice birdies!

Date: 2006-01-12 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kalmn.livejournal.com
hm. speaking of obscure norse gods, have you heard anything about lorman, who is apparently a norwegian god of rivers?

Date: 2006-01-12 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
No, none of my sources have mentioned him.

Date: 2006-01-12 05:41 pm (UTC)
ext_7025: (Default)
From: [identity profile] buymeaclue.livejournal.com
Hmm. I don't think of myself as specially fond of myths for their own sake. I'm very fond of them in the meta way, stories about stories, and such. I'm very fond looking at them and trying to see where they say things other than what they're seen as saying, or at least how those things can be found in them.

I have, for example, a beauty and the beast story where the girl says to the beast at the end, "I can do better." (The beast in this story is a statue, a gargoyle, and is in no way alive or aware, so I don't feel especially bad about this.) And I haven't worked on it more because I'm not sure I can pull it off, and because I do think that the inside-stuff-matters-most message is a very very very very very important one. And yet. And yet.

But that's not the same as liking the beauty or the beast. I do, when I'm writing or reading about them. But I'm neutral towards them when I'm not.

I do like Orpheus. This may be because I've written about him so many times (even without realizing until after the fact that I was do. But I'm fond of him. I like that he has more than one story, that he was an Argonaut and that he was a seer, and I like how his stories fit into other stories, how there are so many different ways for something to be an Orpheus story. I don't _like_ that he looks back, exactly, but I understand it, that half-second of worry, and how it can make everything go so horribly long. And mostly--mostly--it's just that I'm a sucker for stupid loyalty.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
I like the Beast.

My one and only Orpheus story was an Orpheus Midas Tam Lin four elements Dives and Lazarus story. It did not have a partridge in a pear tree in it, but I may go back and edit one in....

Date: 2006-01-12 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zalena.livejournal.com
Big Gawain fan here. Sir Gawain and the Loathly Lady is one of those stories I use to remember the way I'm supposed to be treated. Lancelot is an ass. Galahad is even worse.

Have you read Gerald Morris' Squire's Tale series? They are very funny, and pro-Gawain though I think they plateaued at The Savage Damsel and the Dwarf which is a hilarious treatment of the Sir Gareth Kitchen Knight material.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Oh, Galahad, yes. Good heavens. It all just goes downhill from the minute anyone thinks of Galahad.

I have not read the Gerald Morris series, but I just put it on my list of books to look for.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zalena.livejournal.com
It went down hill from the moment that Galahad was a gleam in Elaine's eye.

Put Lancelot on the list of people who should not be fathers. And I hate Guenivere.

The Gerald Morris series is written for 10-yr-olds, but it is still fun. The later books I didn't like.

Date: 2006-01-12 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
I like 10-year-olds, sometimes.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greykev.livejournal.com
I'm not sure I resonate well with mythology. I like the idea of Janus, and the taoist immortals, but the actual stories about them? Eh. I tend to vear-off fairly quickly and make my own thing out of the bones of what is.

Date: 2006-01-12 06:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] copperwise.livejournal.com
Nice Haugean Girls don't have patron saints, but if I did, I would pick the Doubter and the Magdalen, and also Martha, because I know what it's like to have other people trying to tell you about how damn spiritual they are when the dishes need washing, like you can't listen to any Messiah worth his salt and wash dishes at the same time. It's not like they had a vacuum to run. Sheesh. Although I would confess a fondness for someone who turned on the vacuum just when Jesus was about to go on about the meek again: "Oh, what was that, Christ? I'm sorry, there was something on the rug, wanted to catch it before it set in. No, do go on, I'll catch up -- you'd gotten as far as hunger and thirst for righteousness. I like that part."

*lurve*

OK, let's see...Loki. He's not evil. It's his job to keep things interesting and keep you on your toes. Anansi Spider, Raven, Rabbit and Coyote, for that matter. Trickster is my patron, if anyone ever was. And Grandmother Spider who wove the alphabet and gave us writing.

Qwan Yin who hears the cries of the world and responds with endless compassion.

Mouse Woman, who always beats the bigger, meaner opponents with cunning and wit.

The Norns, the Fates, the Moirae...weaving, measuring, snipping forever at the root of it all, more powerful than any deity.




Date: 2006-01-12 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
The Norns are among the many Norse myffic figures I tend to cast as my relatives in my head.

Date: 2006-01-12 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com
Boy, after all that, I'm scared to say I like Mother Holle.

Well, she did have long teeth.


g,d,r,
R.L.

Date: 2006-01-12 08:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marykaykare.livejournal.com
Lillith, also Raven and Coyote. I was fascinated by the Greek and Roman pantheons as a kid, but I think it was the whole idea of multiple deities rather any one specific character.

Ohh, and Bast, goddess of joy.

MKK

Date: 2006-01-12 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stillsostrange.livejournal.com
I love Odin, for the reasons you mention and others. He's so much more interesting than most other heads of pantheons. And after the incident with Billing's daughter, he just went and got a charm to make sure it didn't happen again, instead of turning her into something out of spite.

Date: 2006-01-13 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Yah, it's more "well, damn" than "and now you're a tree, bitch!" I like that.

Date: 2006-01-13 03:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avrelia.livejournal.com
When I was very young, I like Athena - because of wisdom. Then I kind of lost contact with her.

Then I liked Hermes, and recently I reinvented Artemis and Hecate for my own purposes and Ariadna, too - and I like them, re-invented.

Also: baba Yaga rules! ;)

Date: 2006-01-13 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
I hope to finish my Baba Yaga hockey story very soon. Today if possible.

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