not the walk I hoped for

[mrissa]

I am a colossal wuss.

I am not scared by men yelling things out the windows of their cars at me while I am walking my dog. I am not scared by men slowing down to yell things out the windows of their cars at me while I am out walking my dog. Disgusted is not the same thing as scared, so I'm not scared when they do it with three little girls, approximate ages 4, 6, and 8, in the back seat. I'm not scared when they slow down and don't yell, just make it obvious that they're looking.

But when three cars full of men in their 20s and 30s pull over to watch me walking my dog, then drive around the block an improbable twice to do it twice more? Then I am scared.

I make eye contact, and I do not smile, and I lift my chin at them in that way that says, "What the hell are you looking at? Piss off." And I look back up the hill to the park to make sure that the nice old gent and his little granddaughter, the ones I talked to, the ones who petted Ista, are watching me. They are. I wave to them again, and the old man waves a great big theatrical wave, and I don't look at the men in the cars again, and they drive off.

It is the middle of the afternoon in my own damn neighborhood. Before they started pausing across the street, I was thinking about how the green of August things after rain is different from the green of May things, and how good the tomatoes will taste for dinner, and the Veronica Mars DVDs that finally came, and bits of my book that make happy clicking places in my head, and maybe bits of the next book, too. I was thinking of the wedding of my best friend from kindergarten, and of how I walked that very same path yesterday with greykev, and of the water lilies blooming again on the pond. And yes, I was thinking of which yards have large dogs friendly to me and unfriendly to strangers, which houses contain neighbors who know me, which cars would be likely to stop if I needed help, how fast and how far I could run with the dog if we had to. But it wasn't the only thing I was thinking of, until they were leaning out their windows in silence, watching me, just watching.

I am angry.

Comments

[callunav.livejournal.com]

About your last sentence -

Yes. Goddamned yes. I am angry on your behalf.

About your first--

Huh?

You handled that *so* well, and that's not easy. And your response is anger, and that's appropriate - and *also* not always easily, when people have deliberately set out to frighten you and been pretty effective in their methods.

I admire your handling of this to pieces. I wish to god it wasn't necessary, because it's unfair and wrong.

Damn.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

No, I did not handle it well.

I let it bother me.

I let them become depersonalized threats rather than people to me.

And I actually let myself have a moment of wondering what I could have done to avoid being the target of that behavior -- is there something wrong with these jeans? Do I walk funny in these shoes? Why me, why now, why this, what did I screw up?

So: not well at all.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

are you angry with them or with you, then?

(slightly puzzled)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize I had to choose.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Just to be clear, I am overwhelmingly more angry with them. But I would like to have a little better self-control in situations like this as well.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

hm.

i think you and i are wired quite quite differently.

i'm sorry you were in an uncomfortable situation that made you angry.

i feel like i'm probably coming off as patronizing or condescending here, and i don't mean to, it's just that, apparently, gravity makes things fall in a different direction on my planet than it does on yours, which makes me cautious about saying things about it.

in any case, bleh! fooey on them.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I can think of someone as a precious individual human snowflake while punching him in the testicles.

I mean, not that I've done it often. But when necessary.

And right now, I'm no longer the object of that type of attention, and I'm still bothered, and that's the letting it bother me that, well, bothers me.

[callunav.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see.

Okay, yes. I see what you mean, I think.

Your three lines are three separate things, though, I think.

(I dunno. Maybe you don't really need or want anyone taking this apart like this - you don't generally use LJ for opinions on your actions; I get the sense that you don't need too much of that, and what you do need, you get from the people you're close to in real life. So this response from me may seem condescending or just irritating, and if so, I apologize. Basically, all of those feelings are understandable and unpleasant, and I have felt things like that and hated it, and I sympathise - and maybe that's all that needs to be said.)

But for what it's worth -

You let it bother you. Feeling bothered is really unpleasant, but it seems to me like it was genuinely disturbing, threatening behavior. Not so unequivocally threatening that they couldn't have pretended not to know what you were talking about, maybe, but that's just playing dumb: the threat was there. Being bothered by a threatening, objectifying, and potentially dangerous situation just strikes me as sensible. I'm not sure what kind of person you would have to be to have blown that experience off without turning a hair. I can only really imagine it if you were vapid and unobservant and never even realized what was happening, or if you were aggressive and over-confident and spoiling for a fight, and neither of those options seems very desirable. Being unsettled is sort of like feeling pain, really. It's a survival thing.

You let them become depersonalized threats rather than people to you. *That* one I can really see. That's the sort of thing I would be upset with myself for afterward, too. Because they were sure objectifying and depersonalizing *you*, and they were...how do I say it?...they were acting in a way so as to deliberately invoke non-person status, because they have more power that way. So there's always that tantalizing question: if I'd been able to make them into real people in how I perceived them, and thus how I interacted with them, could I somehow have shifted the balance of things enough to make them perceive me as a real person? And then we could have been real people together on the street, instead of male stalkers and female targets. Or possibly for you it's not transformative, but just how you perceive them. Either way, I think you never know if you could have made it happen or not, but it's there as a regret. All I can say to that one is that I admire the regret.

For the last? Ouch. So, so understandable, and so infuriating. But you're *aware*. You had 'a moment' of it. A lot of other people would never come out that 'moment,' or understand why you would ever /not/ think that. (You know, I initially wrote 'so natural,' and then I had to change it, because what's "natural" about it? It's what we all get taught, over and over and over. People believe lies if they're told them often enough, and we've been told those lies a lot more often and more loudly and more pervasively than we've been told the truth. You're not untouched by that destructive socialization - you're something better: you're someone who has been touched by it, and has become an articulate, effective force against it.

And, truly, from the point of view of someone who spent a long time working on women's self-defense, what you did was *exactly* what you do to avoid being a target. It's not about the jeans, the shoes, the screwing up. It's about the posture, the eye contact, the making connections with other people in the environment, and all the rest. So, for what that's worth - rah.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

if I'd been able to make them into real people in how I perceived them, and thus how I interacted with them, could I somehow have shifted the balance of things enough to make them perceive me as a real person? And then we could have been real people together on the street, instead of male stalkers and female targets.

Yes, exactly.

And even if it hadn't done that, I would rather have to run away from an individual or kick an individual than a nameless nastiness.

And thanks. I'm pretty confident in my ability to handle this kind of situation, because I have before and worse, and because my grandpa the Marine considered it a top priority to make sure my mom and I could handle ourselves. I just don't like having to have that kind of confidence in order to get the dog walked.

[callunav.livejournal.com]

I just don't like having to have that kind of confidence in order to get the dog walked.

God. Heard and witnessed.

[mkille.livejournal.com]

I'm very, very sorry. And growling. But not at you.

No, I did not handle it well.

I respectfully and cautiously disagree. Clearly you didn't handle it as well as you'd like to have, and certainly you didn't handle it perfectly, but you didn't handle it poorly by any reasonable criteria I can think of. And you know me, I can think of a *lot* of marginally reasonable criteria.

I let it bother me.

Hmmm...you know I can relate to that, and how. Which is why I think I'm not talking completely out my ass when I point out that being bothered often isn't something we have voluntary control over. In fact, I think, though I'm not certain, that you've made that exact same point to me before.

I let them become depersonalized threats rather than people to me.

The one small piece of this concern that I want to put forward is a theological observation: There is such a thing as depersonalized wrongness in the world, and sometimes people, in given moments, give themselves over into service of that depersonalized wrongness. I personally think it's okay to view people as both depersonalized threats *and* individual people in such moments--sometimes engaging someone's individuality involves acknowledging how they've impaired it--and it sounds to me like this was one of those moments. You and I don't see eye-to-eye on all matters of theology, and this could well be one of our disagreements, but I wanted to put it forward.

And I actually let myself have a moment of wondering what I could have done to avoid being the target of that behavior -- is there something wrong with these jeans? Do I walk funny in these shoes? Why me, why now, why this, what did I screw up?

Sexist societal riptides aside, I think it's very, very hard to be used to being a Responsible Adult and then set that aside to "allow" someone else to have all the responsibility in a given situation. That goes for nasty situations like this as much as for happy situations like being pampered. When one is used to holding a local piece of the world together--well, it becomes instinctive to take responsibility for whatever happens, is what I'm saying. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you had that moment. I know I would have, in your shoes, which you were not walking funny in.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

In which you suspect I was not walking funny. I am capable of walking funny, you know.

Sometimes engaging someone's individuality involves acknowledging how they've impaired it.

Okay, that's useful. Thanks.

[timprov.livejournal.com]

And I actually let myself have a moment of wondering what I could have done to avoid being the target of that behavior -- is there something wrong with these jeans? Do I walk funny in these shoes? Why me, why now, why this, what did I screw up?

This may make you a bad feminist, but it makes you a good tactician. Even if the answer is "nothing," not considering it is irresponsible.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I wish you'd been with me, too. And not even because I could then give you tomatoes after it was over.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

This would have bothered me, too. I don't understand the behavior. Why would three cars full of guys do this. Did they have walkie talkies and all agree that they should drive around the block twice to stare at one woman and her dog? It's insane! I would not only have been bothered, I'd have called the police. But then again, I do that a lot, and the police never care about my problems. I'm glad you know your neighbors. Do you have a neighborhood watch? Maybe you should start one if not.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

My guess is that they were going somewhere as a group anyway. That's entirely out of an orifice, however; I have no proof.

I don't think we have a neighborhood watch, but I'm not sure. No one has mentioned it to us if we have. We've let our neighbors know that we work from home and are mostly around if kids need adults in an emergency, that kind of thing, but that's all informal.

[pieslut.livejournal.com]

Bah! I just don't understand the type of man who thinks it's ok to do this. They have to know that it's frightening to the women they're staring/yelling at - and they still thinks it's ok? Ok to scare someone who's just out walking their damn dog? WTF?

[greykev.livejournal.com]

Perhaps next year I'll get you a taser?

Wish I had the magic answer to keep guys from being jerks. Sorry they got to you.

**hug**

[warinbear.livejournal.com]

I'd like to make clear, before I go anywhere else, that I do not in any way, shape, form, or fashion disapprove of your behavior in this instance. I think your expectations are perfectly reasonable, and when they're not being met, your anger is just as reasonable.

That being said, I think you are eminently worth looking at.

I had a related conversation about six months ago with a waitress. I told her that I had several family members who had worked in restaurants, and that I knew it was not appropriate for a customer to make advances on the serving staff (she agreed wholeheartedly). I then told her that I wished there were some socially acceptable, non-coercive, non-threatening way to let a person know that you find zir attractive, so that I could use it on her. She blushed slightly and said 'Thank you,' which was exactly what I was hoping for -- no more, no less.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Well, thanks for the sentiment, but I think this distinctly crossed a line from being "looked at" (at which point one can argue aesthetics) to something scarier (in which case no one deserves it for being pretty or ugly or anything in between).

[haddayr.livejournal.com]

Those motherfucking fucking fuckers. gah.

I'm angry, too.

I wish you wouldn't be upset that you "let" it bother you. It was genuinely a potentially dangerous situation. You were listening to your instincts. You responded by giving them a level glance and pointing out to them that someone else was watching. I cannot imagine a better reaction.

But to be upset you "let" it bother you? How much control do you have over that, first of all, and second -- it was bothersome. It was bothering. It was what it was.

Those motherfucking fucking fuckers.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I just don't like having them be able to decide, "Let's make her have this emotional state instead of that one" and succeed. It's kind of a mini version of "the terrorists win." Except sometimes, well, they do. Because you can't force people to be happy or sad or pensive or whatever, but you can choose to be scary enough that they really, rationally, ought to be scared.

Sigh.

[haddayr.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I just didn't want you to be mad at _yourself._

Because, even though I haven't even met you (yet), I am really starting to like you and respect you and I do NOT think you should be mad at anyone but those scary assholes.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Well, thanks. I do appreciate it.

[joelrosenberg.livejournal.com]

Here I was hoping that about paragraph four would be something like, "so I put my hand in my pocket and thought to myself that this really isn't going to be really bad, because all they're trying to do is intimidate me, and I know something that they don't, and while it's possible that something bad's going to happen, it isn't going to be me being intimidated."

Respectfully: no, you're not a colossal wuss.

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

Anything I would say has been said and thought out far better by previous commenters, so instead I will just send sympathy because it does suck that you have to think about this stuff all the time, or at least at any random moment, rather than being able to relax in safety.