still on the space opera

[mrissa]

One of the phrases that was gender-indiscriminate in household parlance in my childhood was, "You're a gentleman and a scholar." It was up there with "being a trooper" in phrases of general approval. And so it doesn't seem odd to me that I would describe one of the space opera characters by saying, "She is a true gentleman." I don't mean that she's "mannish." She's not mannish. But she's not femmey, either, and being a true lady is a very, very different thing. This character struggled over the equivalent of Latin as an adolescent, not the equivalent of teacup-painting.

This is...look, this is behaving like my own house, in my head here. I know where things are in this story, because they're where I left them, and if I know that we have plenty of those weird new peach crisps, it's because I stocked up. So to speak. It's being like the Carter Hall stories that way. And it's worthwhile to write stuff that doesn't occupy that kind of headspace, but -- this is worthwhile, too, and it's fun.

I know some of you find that the fun stuff turns out to be better writing, and some of you find that the stuff that makes you sweat blood and bullets is better writing. I'm calibrated on an orthogonal axis, I think, because I have not once been able to determine a connection between quality and difficulty -- not any connection, negative or positive. And that being the case, I'm enjoying enjoying writing for awhile, if that doubling makes any sense. I like having the fun while the fun is to be had, in part because I know it'll wander off sooner or later and leave me with the tough bits where everyone is standing around smelling of cardboard and saying things like, "Err...I'm almost sure someone left a plot around here somewhere...."

Comments

[brooksmoses]

My father's version of "You're a gentleman and a scholar" tended to usually have a wink and "Not many of us left" appended to it. It's one of the phrases I particularly associate with him.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I know someone who adds that part, too, but I can't think who. (mormor1, if you're reading this, jump in if you know.)

[songwind.livejournal.com]

Even better to have someone nearby who is used to the exchange to mutter "Thank god!" under their breath.

[brooksmoses]

Hee! I've never heard that rejoinder, but I like it.

[zwol.livejournal.com]

It sounds like "You're a mensch" -- at least in my dialect of Yinglish this just means "You have done right by your friends" or "You have demostrated character traits which I approve of", but the original word is gendered male.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I was once determined to be a mensch. That was a good day.

[skzbrust.livejournal.com]

I know some of you find that the fun stuff turns out to be better writing, and some of you find that the stuff that makes you sweat blood and bullets is better writing...I have not once been able to determine a connection between quality and difficulty -- not any connection, negative or positive.

Nor have I. With several years perspective, and looking at sentences, scenes, or whole books, not one difference. And that pisses me off! I mean, you'd think one or the other would be better, wouldn't you?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

But I think we're lucky, because the people who are better when they're sweating blood are going to have to shun or at least plan to discard the fun times, knowing they'll be crap, and the people who are better when they're having fun are going to have to try to have enforced fun at some point. Okay, we are having some real fun now, dammit! Any minute now! Fun! Whereas people without a correlation know that the thing to do in a given situation is to keep writing.

[brooksmoses]

For me, there's usually a good bit of a correlation between whether I'm having fun or not, and whether or not I think it's any good when I'm writing it. (The causality on that could go either way.)

But in the cold hard light of hindsight, none of that correlates with whether it's actually high-quality writing or not.

[songwind.livejournal.com]

For me, difficulty seems to only affect quality if it's *too* difficult. I.E. if it's too difficult, it will be crappy because it was probably beyond me.

Did you say "She is a true gentleman" in the work itself, or just while describing the character to someone? Because while I tend to think sort of the way you did, I would guess you could come up with a lot of unintended lesbian assumptions or something when you unleash that on the audience at large.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I did not say it in the work itself. But I think it's going to be kind of tricky (but worthwhile!) to get the character to read as big and hearty and the captain of a starship and all sorts of other things and not have people complain that she reads as "a Boy Scout with tits."

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

[[ big and hearty and the captain of a starship ]]

That doesn't read like a Boy Scout to me. Knowing it's a woman, I get something in the direction of a middle aged woman (old enough to command and be comfortable being hearty while commanding); big as in somewhat fat with big hips and breasts, blowsy(sp?); loud; uninhibited, able to say things that shock the males into silence. Kind of like Granny Weatherwax or Nanny Ogg.

A Boy Scout, with or without tits, suggests someone quiet, respectful, obedient, etc.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The "Boy Scout with tits" line is a reference to a criticism often directed at Robert Heinlein, I think unjustly. (Heinlein characters are not much quiet, respectful, obedient, etc., either!) As far as I've been able to determine, people say this when they don't like reading about women who like to have sex with at least one man and solve differential equations. As a heterosexual former physics student, I find that objection pretty bothersome.

[zalena.livejournal.com]

"You're a gentleman and a scholar."

This was also said in my family gender indiscriminately. I think it was my grandfather's influence. (Who was neither a gentleman or a scholar.)

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

fwiw, the members of my family who say this tend to finish it out with "...and a good judge of bad whiskey."

I must get back to Lilith because one of the things I liked about that was all space stations having a Stationmistress, and that being a gender-neutral title.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I am a terrible judge of bad whiskey. If you give me any whiskey at all, I will back hastily away from it and mutter, "Bad! Bad!" So the rate of false positives is rather high. Also, I never look erudite and say, "Ahhh, that's a Glenwhatsit; terrible, terrible." So.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

I love that you're using "gentleman" to be gender-neutral, not just in daily parlance, but in a story. That rocks.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

But it is. I didn't do it. It just is that way. You can't go making someone into a lady when they're a gentleman; it doesn't work.

The gentleman's name is Sarah, by the way.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

No, I agree. Being a lady is something entirely else.

I think more gentlemen should be named Sarah. That is what I think.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The Curate in Genteel Poverty is named Ann.

(Actually she's a mathematician-navigator. But socially, very similar.)

OT :-)

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

That sounds like you've been reading the Botswana books. That is what it sounds like.