More Fourth Street Bits

[mrissa]

I am not very good at the play-by-play kind of con report, so I won't be doing that. One small note of the where-I-went/who-I-saw/what-I-ate variety, though: the wee strawberry cake-ish things at elisem's party were so very fine.

So. The Second Draft panel (initially typed "Second Drat panel," but I think I am on my fortieth or fiftieth drat by now) did not magically fix the computer time problems brought about by vertigo, but it was interesting to hear such differing writers' takes on that part of the process. This is kind of what Fourth Street is like: I showed up for panels I would have skipped at most other cons (by which I mean, at any other con that was not Farthing Party), because it was going to be interesting people with interesting ideas. It's not quite to the point where I don't care what programming is, because I'll be going anyway. But it's close.

On some panel, truepenny said she was a fantasy writer at longer lengths and a horror writer at shorter lengths, and something in my brain went, "Ting!" like the Fairy Doll. I really hope I'm not becoming a fantasy writer at longer lengths and a science fiction writer at shorter lengths, because there are still long SF and short fantasy things I'd like to write. But that's certainly been the way it's looked in the last months or maybe even year. This morning when I sat down to get a little work in, I opened the file for...yet another partially finished SF story. Hmmmm, she said.

There have been lots of panel reports on the "Advice from New Writers" panel, and I hope the audience was taking it as I was taking it: keeping the good bits of advice panels from experienced writers, rather than the bad bits. If you're doing that sort of thing well, you don't blindly listen to everything an experienced writer says because they're experienced; some of them are extremely experienced fruitbats. You think about what they've said, and you think about the context in which they've said it, and you keep what makes sense and you throw out what doesn't. It seemed like at least one member of the audience didn't realize that was meant to be true of the new writers' panel as well. Don't listen to us because we're new! Listen to us when we make sense. Listen to the established writers when they make sense. Sometimes it'll be the same sense, sometimes not. There is -- or at least there ought to be -- as much diversity among new writers' opinions as among established writers' opinions.

One thing that frustrates me a lot is when people try to act as though all writers should be willing and able to become editors and publishers at the drop of the proverbial hat. I am not an editor. I am not a publisher. I don't want to be either of those things, or my life would have a very different shape. I recognize that this means that there won't be an editor or a publisher who thinks exactly like me. I consider this a feature, not a bug: we already have a me on board for all of my projects. Having a backup me would be wasteful. One of the editor's jobs is to be not me.

I started this three hours ago, with loooooong breaks for vertiginous coping. I'm going to post it now and come back for the thoughts I had on the general topic of the "From Cool Idea to Story" panel later.

Comments

[timprov.livejournal.com]

Viking mrissa says: When editors are on panels telling people what they want to see, nobody ever tells them to write it themselves.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

(Er, that was Viking with a B.)

[timprov.livejournal.com]

You can see how it was an easy mistake to make.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

*nodding* What you say re the new writers' advice (and old) makes good sense.

[mmerriam.livejournal.com]

One thing that frustrates me a lot is when people try to act as though all writers should be willing and able to become editors and publishers at the drop of the proverbial hat.

Yes. This is something that has bugged me as well, the more so since I just dodged the whole editor/publisher bullet and am now thankful that my enthusiasm for a project did end up getting me in way over my head.

[cadithial.livejournal.com]

There were enough people in the room that could get the infrastructure for web publishing up and going though :) Although, not necessarily the business side. Although, I know at least 1 person in there has contacts with folks who've done / are doing startups. I'm pretty sure he reads your blog on a regular basis too :P

[timprov.livejournal.com]

I was particularly amused that the gentleman making this demand was doing it with me standing immediately behind him.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I certainly support as many people doing cool web, podcast, print, and other publishing projects as have the resources to do them. But that's not really what I saw happening with that comment. He wasn't saying that some people could, he was addressing the panelists. And some of the panelists may want to do something like that, but some of the panelists also want to throw pots, build lasers, run small businesses, moderate forums, bear and raise children, or bake bread -- it doesn't mean that it ought to be required of them/us as writers.

[callunav.livejournal.com]

First: you don't blindly listen to everything an experienced writer says because they're experienced; some of them are extremely experienced fruitbats.

I just wanted to quote it somewhere because it was awesome, and I can't read it aloud to my boss because she wouldn't appreciate it.

Second: One of the editor's jobs is to be not me.

Yes! Yes! Or even your very bestest friend.

As far as writers, publishers, etc. - yes and yes. I sometimes get frustrated that people who are primarily editors who have written a couple lovely things don't write more - but then I realize how glad I am that they're being good editors. And it goes the other direction, too. It is commutative.

I think what really tips me off are when I can't stand the introductions good writers write for their own or other people's short stories. I had to stop reading MZB's introductions. As a writer she had some sterling qualities. As the editor of a collection - gack. Similarly, I had a choice between loathing Connie Willis forever or just stopping reading her introductions, and went for the latter. (I know that there's a lot more to editing anything, even a collection, than writing the introductions, but that's one of the most visible bits.

Some people can wear multiple hats. There are triathalon athletes,too. But no one thinks, "Oh, that Bonnie Blaire, sure, shecould speed-skate, but how come she didn't do Tai Kwon Do, too?" Or if they do, I don't want to know about it.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The metaphor used for short stories and long forms at Fourth Street was that nobody looks at a mural artist and demands that they do scrimshaw in order to really count as an artist. I think that might apply for writing and editing as well.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

Just as a point of interest, people do say to watercolo(u)rists that they ought to paint in oils to be taken seriously. I've seen this in a number of biographies, and my aunt confirms it was said to her.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Oh dear.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

Advice from experienced writers: "Nothing odd will do for long. Tristam Shandy did not last." Dr. Samuel Johnson, author of (among other works) the novel Rasselas.

Algis Budrys said firmly that there was absolutely no difference between plotting a short story and plotting a novel.

A very good writer who I won't name said carpal tunnel was nothing to worry about -- the operation only cost him a couple of thousand dollars.

[crimini.livejournal.com]

"...you don't blindly listen to everything an experienced writer says because they're experienced; some of them are extremely experienced fruitbats."

This has got to be the best quote ever. :D

And it goes without saying that anyone who blindly follows another is going to end up tripping over something, running into half-open doors, and potentially suffering black eyes and egg-shaped bumps on the noggin. People should always always open their eyes... we do not have echolocation.

[redbird]

The flip side of people who assume that all writers should be willing and able to become editors, is people who assume that all editors (and sometimes anyone working in publishing, including the compositors, tech artists, and probably the HR and accounting people) either are or want to be fiction writers.

[aszanoni.livejournal.com]

Yes! And you know, I don't want to be a writer. There are so many other nifty people, many of whom are reading this blog, who ARE writers. Why should I try to be them? That seems incredibly wasteful.

"Having a backup me would be wasteful. One of the editor's jobs is to be not me."

I like that very much. I like the bit about fruitbats also. -twinkle-

ASZ/Chica*---