Collectible

[mrissa]

So I was thinking about short stories today, for obvious reasons, and specifically I was thinking about short story collections. My records indicate that I've now sold about 300,000 words of short fiction. For those of you who don't keep track of such things, the range of lengths for what we consider "a book" varies considerably, but 40K is the minimum novel length for Hugo Award purposes, and 100K is more typical these days. So that's roughly three books' worth. Say that some stories are too recent to be reprinted but that on the other hand there are other stories I like but never sold. Still. Three solid books' worth. At least.

If you were dividing up short stories, how would you want them divided? Thematically? Chronologically? Seasonally? (Winter, winter, winter, and not-winter, in my case.) By genre and/or sub-genre? By the thing that allowed for the cleverest titles or most apropos cover images? What else would you want to see here?

If this short story writer wrote stories in a series with one set of characters, in addition to all the other stuff she did, but there weren't enough of those for a collection yet, but there would almost certainly be at some point, would you want to see them dispersed, put in one collection, or left out? If instead of the reader you were the writer, would your answers be different?

Comments

[mkille.livejournal.com]

Well, as a reader, I would prefer the thematic division.

I would put one of the series stories in each collection, and include those ones in the later collection that has the whole series. It would feel strange to me to read a collection that was a, b, c, d, e, f, G, G', G'', G'''.

If I were the writer, I would develop a set of tags for my stories. "Lots of fun to write." "This particular genre." "Particularly well received when originally published." "Humor." "Tragedy." Then I would want to try to build each collection into a perfect mix, whatever that might be. Something where you feel confident that pieces of it will appeal to particular niches, while also encouraging people to look outside their niche and/or get a deeper and broader impression of me as a writer.

But really this is not me thinking like a writer, but thinking like a librarian.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I'd probably want the series saved until there's enough to fill their own book. As for the rest, probably thematically/by genre -- something where I'd feel a degree of unity between the ones that end up in a given volume. But since that inevitably leads to some "misc" stories, those should go chronologically.

[fidelioscabinet.livejournal.com]

I'd say try different divisions, with advice and input from the Mrissan Literary Council. I am ignorant of effective marketing techniques.

Is there in fact not enough available material for a Carter Hall volume at this time? Because, despite the range of stuff you have out there, I have to admit that was my first thought, and I realize that gets to be a little Charles Dickens "You know, I have written more than the Pickwick Papers dammitall." I'll take Carter and his crowd any way I can get them, but for those with cash flow issues, the discrete (as opposed to discreet, although I don't think Carter will tell just anybody everything he knows) volume will probably be preferred.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I have sold four Carter stories to the tune of 23K. I have written more than that, but I'm still finding out whether there's a primary market for those; if I did a Carter volume, it would be shorter than I would like and would lack in over half of what's eventually available.

I'm also a little more leery of doing my own Carterish collection, since I'm working on revisions to the novel at the moment and kind of head-down in Carterness, and also I have no idea what the market for a Carter collection would be with or without selling the novel. It's all rather muddled.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

Then I'd say save the Carter stories for later. Other than that, I don't have an opinion. I kind of like the chronological idea, since part of what interests my lit-prof brain is the development across a person's career. But pretty much if you sell it I'll buy it.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The thing about strict chronological order is that you run the risk of someone bouncing off earlier work in ways the writer (and I don't just mean me this time) will improve later. So my impulse--and I put this out here for people to argue with--is that chronological order can be fascinating if the reader is already committed to reading all the stories, but runs a higher risk of the reader quitting halfway through if they are not feeling as committed.

This is why I don't lend people Reg Hill novels chronologically. The one time I did that, even with my song and dance about how they get different and better later, the person has declined to read any more.

[fidelioscabinet.livejournal.com]

I can't comment usefully on the effects of putting out a Carter collection on future story sales; I am only a consumer. However, I suspect the regulars here are not the best standard to go by in determining the value of all-Carter collections. We're a bit prejudiced.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Indeed, I know it well.

[ellen-fremedon.livejournal.com]

I would divide short stories in some way that allows for a wide range of genres and story types in one volume. Chronologically is a fairly easy way to do this, but I do like thematic groupings as long as the theme is one that cuts across the grain of genre and other divisions; the geographic division of Le Guin's The Compass Rose, for example.

For series stories, it depends on the type of series. If they're structurally similar, I prefer them spread out across volumes, especially if they involve the characters solving the same types of problems-- detective stories, say. If the situations are more varied, and at least some of the stories cover major changes or upheavals to characters' lives, I prefer to read them together.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I am not arguing with having a wide range of genres and story types in one volume--it seems like a good idea to me--but can you articulate a bit more why it works well for you?

[ellen-fremedon.livejournal.com]

It works well for me because I usually read short story collections straight through, and reading several examples of the same story type and genre from the same author back-to-back can make me uncomfortably aware of the author's shortcuts and preoccupations.

[moiread]

I already gave my feedback to Mris by e-mail because LJ was being cranky last night, but I agree with you in everything except two points: I am not that big a fan of chronological when-this-was-written order, and for me it's not so much that I see the flaws as that I get bored.

[prock.livejournal.com]

From a marketing standpoint I think you would pick "all of the above". That way you can sell more books by (1) catering to specific interests, and (2) having at least one story per book that only appears in that book. While (2) might seem devious and underhanded, (1) is the real bonus. Think of it as a pseudo a la carte offering.

Alternatively, you could price them individually on amazon for $.99 and let the reader do true a la carte.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, I think $.99 for a single short story on Amazon from an author who doesn't have a novel out or a million major awards is a bit steep for the market to bear, but possibly I am underestimating the market. I would pay that. I'm just not sure that other people will when they can get entire books for $.99.

[prock.livejournal.com]

Maybe you could price them at 2 bits?

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

I think my answer to your last paragraph is "I want a Carter Hall collection even if I have to wait for it." I don't actually care that much how nonrelated stories are grouped, but I like Carter (and Tam and Janet and their spawn) a lot and I want to see the continuity in his storyline.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, The Continuing Adventures of Carter Hall will be grouped chronologically.

Unless Carter does something horrible with time travel which DOES NOT BEAR THINKING OF. In which case I will CRY.

But really he oughtn't. We ought to be fine.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

If I were the writer, I would scatter a few Carter stories through an otherwise-themed collection, and then a few more in the next collection and so forth, until there were enough for a Carter collection. The scattering being intended largely to generate new fans for the series and new sales for all the books concerned. Carter fans will need to buy them all; generic Mris-fans will discover Carter; it's all good.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Hmm, and you don't mind having stories appear in more than one collection?

[desperance.livejournal.com]

Lordie, no. On the assumption that not everybody who likes my work will buy all my books, it increases the opportunity for random readers to discover the more popular or the more important stories, if they are repeated in two or three or four collections.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Aheh. I meant as a reader who was buying the books, not as a writer who was putting them together.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

Ah, that. I don't think I ever minded that. Certainly when I was building my base SF story collection, back in the '70s, I ended up with three or four copies of the classic stories, in collections and best-ofs and anthologies. I don't think it ever stopped me buying a book, if I had one or two of the stories already between other covers.

[aedifica]

I was thinking too that it would be good to have a Carter story or two in each volume, to give readers a taste so they'll want the full Carter anthology when it happens.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

My opinion -- based on publishing two short story collections and a fix-up novel (with another fix-up in the works), so this is a reflection of what I did -- is ...

Mix'n'match. Hold back the series stories for a fix-up if you think the series will run to more than 60K words; otherwise, if it's complete at less than 60K you can stick them in a collection with other work as long as they're not more than 50% of the total.

Hit two or three different styles/themes, lest your readers get bored: try to make the collection a sampler of your work. Don't be tempted to put the stories in chronological order of writing, lest the readers start chewing on your earlier, journey[wo]man work and get put off: open with a bang and close with a bang, and scatter a couple of firecrackers in-between.

Put in one really substantial item (long novelette or novella) or a couple of smaller items that haven't been published elsewhere. Ideally write them specifically for the collection, and get someone else (your agent or editor) to sanity-check them for quality. This is the hook for your true fans who read all your short stories as soon as they come out.

Write a short intro or afterword to give new readers a faint idea of who you are and why they might enjoy the stories, but remember you're not Harlan Ellison (I hope).

Finally, don't expect it to earn a buttload of money. The major labels won't take a short story collection at all unless you're either A-list already or close to breaking out. The small presses will, however, do a decent job and their high-end advances overlap with the low-to-medium midlist end at the major publishers.

(I was lucky enough to sell a collection to Ace a couple of years ago, but the advance was around 35-40% of what I was getting from them for novels. I pitched it at them because I badly needed breathing space to get another novel right -- it took 18 months to write -- and they took it because they wanted to keep publishing a book a year with my name on it for commercial reasons because they figured I was close to breaking out.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Bangs and firecrackers. This I can do.

And the sanity check on the longer piece, yes: I have seen collections where the longer, previously unpublished piece was a real gem, and others where it was...well, it was. You could hardly say it didn't exist, because there it was. Um.

One of my life goals is to really, really, really not be Harlan Ellison. Even if it involves letting the damn kids stay on my lawn.

And yah, money? Short stories? Cue gales of laughter here. That is totally not why I am doing this part.

Thanks for all this.

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

How realistic is it to talk about the best way of sorting all the available stories? Because if I can count on having all the short stories collected eventually, I'd probably go for the 'thematic' option (particularly if 'thematic' means 'the ones that feel to the author like they fit together'); but, knowing how difficult people find it to get collections of short stories published, if you can only count on one collection, then speaking as a reader I'd like it to contain your 'best of' (and that might hook me to the point where I'd hunt down the rest, you never know).

So that would probably include some Carter, wouldn't it? I'd want some, as a taster (well, truthfully, I want some because I want some Carter stories, who doesn't? But I'm prepared to wait) but I'd probably prefer Carter to be underrepresented, because I'd be hoping for that all-Carter collection too.

That's speaking as a reader. If I were a writer, I'd be the writer who is me, so I don't suppose my answers would be very different. But if I were a publisher, well, who knows...

[guppiecat]

By theme, then by world, chronologically within the world.

In this lovely day of ebookage, I would address the issue of characters that aren't enough yet but will be eventually, by selling it as The Adventures of Nebuchadnezzar and Hammurabi: Frivolity In Ancient Times - version 0.5 (or, you know, whatever), and offer discounted upgrade pricing to the real book once it is done.

[mycroftw.livejournal.com]

"(Winter, winter, winter, and not-winter, in my case.)"

I must admit, I read that as "Almost winter, Winter, Still Winter, and Construction", as per the old joke (which I'm sure applies to your area of South of 49 as it does mine, north).

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Well, we condense it to "two seasons, winter and road construction," in our version, but yah, same joke.

It's just that my stories...tend to the wintry.

I live here for a reason. Well, several reasons. But this is one.

[pameladean]

Hmph, LJ ate my comment. I like variety in my short story collections, and I don't like huge changes in technical ability next to one another, though a gradual alteration is okay. And it's fine by me if you put some Carter Hall stories in there, or all of them, because I WANT THEM ON PAPER, PRECIOUS.

P.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Paper is not really the most likely option for a collection from a short story writer with no novels out and no major awards. I do not intend to give up on the Carter stories being on paper, though. When I finish the novel I will try to sell the stories to go with, all in one go rather than chopped into bits. If nobody buys them, well, we'll see what things look like then.

[pameladean]

I will buy your stories regardless of the form they take.

I will wait patiently for PAPER, PRECIOUS.

P.

[cloudscudding.livejournal.com]

From a reader's perspective, thematically or mood-based. And absolutely keeping the recurring character stories together!

From a writer's perspective--that might not have been my first inclination before this question, but now it will be.

[vcmw]

My one strong preference is for not having all the stories with the same mood/tone grouped in a chunk. I prefer, when possible, to read short story collections from beginning to end in order, and four stories of death, destruction, despair, and more despair in a row and I'm done. Opposite-wise, four funny sardonic stories in a row have less humorous impact - the fourth one might have my surprise-humor muscles all worked out.

I do think tastes in this vary wildly by reader.
Thematic in chunks by other sorting mechanisms is fine by me. For me, the best analogy is a mixtape, or a radio show: sometimes, that all Grateful Dead hour is just what some readers want. Other times, that thematic show where all the songs have trains in the lyrics is great. Sometimes you want to lie on the floor and listen to all sad songs. But mostly I, at least, want to mix it up and have some old, some new, some uptempo, some slow.

[cissa.livejournal.com]

I don't have much of an opinion about how the short stories should be dostributed among collections... but it IS important to me to not have the same stories appear in a lot of different volumes, with 1-2 new ones to "sweeten the mix".