Complimentary problems

[mrissa]

I have figured out one of the hard things about taking compliments.

For a large-ish portion of my life to date -- thankfully decreasing as a percent every day -- almost all compliments carried with them implicit negative comparisons. It couldn't just be, "What a great dress on you!" It was almost always, "What a great dress on you! I could never wear something like that, it would make me look like [a cow/a wall/some other negative thing]." Some of the girls who learned this pattern were being perfectly sincere, and that was bad, because who wants to make their friends or even their cordial acquaintances feel worse just by showing up? And some of them were fishing for compliments, which was bad, too, because it made it feel like they wouldn't have brought the subject up to begin with otherwise. And you certainly can't smile and say, "Thanks!" when someone had just said, "You look great and I look terrible!"; not unless you dislike them and want them to think they look terrible. You can't feel warm and fuzzy about it. You have to go into caretaker mode -- um, maybe that part is just me, actually -- and try to make it all better, and later when you think of it, that's what you think, not "so-and-so liked my dress."

(Boys were much less of an issue. I think most teenage boys had the feeling that complimenting a girl would be equivalent to publicly offering to raise children with her or something like that: a large commitment of interest at the very least. And many girls seemed to reinforce that belief, so. Men of my acquaintance have a firm grasp on the difference between, "Nice dress" and "please reproduce with me," and for this I am deeply grateful.)

So now when matociquala pops up today saying I would Stop Traffic (caps hers) if I bought a corset at World Fantasy as I have threatened to do, it is a delightful relief that her own traffic stopping abilities are not in question here simply because she has raised the subject of mine. (I mean, the Bear, the jade green corset, the boobs, and did I mention that it was green? And did I also mention the boobs? So: not in question, really.) It's just unadulterated nice. It's very cool but also fairly new. I'm still practicing with this bit.

This is almost certainly not the only problem I have with taking compliments, but it's on the list.

I also tend to want to verify that people know that they're totally making up who is pretty and who is not. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be making it up, I just want to know that they know they're doing it. Social construct and all that. Standards and tastes vary etc. Everybody got it? Okay then.

Comments

problems with compliments

[aet.livejournal.com]

I guess my compliment illiteracy goes back even further.

The compliment usually was an introduction to an unpleasant duty. "You are a big girl - look after your little sister instead of playing!" (ALL compliments tied to my femaleness were demands for being strong, smart, non-clumsy and hard working - no wonder I dreamed of the relief of being a boy); "You are a brave one - so you will keep to yourself any fear, homesickness or pain you may feel!".

So, as soon as I relax and stop forcing myself to be rational, I instantly slip back into time when compliment ALWAYS was a key that opened the door into something unpleasant.

[supergee.livejournal.com]

You're complimenting me too much. Sure, I make up who's pretty, but I couldn't do it by myself, without the assistance of a racist culture and an unending flood of ads telling women that none of them look any good as they are.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Sure you could. It might come out differently, depending on how you process those things, but you could still do your corner of it.

One of my favorite movie scenes ever is in "Adam's Rib," where K. Hepburn has just gotten her secretary to admit to a gender-based double standard. The secretary protests, "Well, I don't make the rules!" And Hepburn snaps out, "Oh, of course you do; we all do."

[supergee.livejournal.com]

Actually, I can't remember ever going along with the fashion biz. I go back to when the only acceptable shape for a fashionable woman was "teenage boy." (As you know, they have since added "teenage boy with boobs.")

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

My ideals of beauty do differ from those endorsed by the media. As an artist I very much prefer a more natural look to the glamorized one that all the make-over shows aim for. (These make me cringe.)

At the same time, it can be a very difficult thing to remain completely uninfluenced by all that media hype and the obvious examples of people who fit the approved forms getting lots of extra goodies and attention. We all have our own tastes, but being human also means being part of a larger community and having to deal with its influences.

A lot of people aren't even aware of the conflict with their own innate tastes when the influences are subtle. (It's not like advertising uses so many words to say 'our image is better than yours' - they use misleading language, sensually charged imagery and music, and subliminal tricks that sometimes cross the line into flat-out brain-washing.)

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

I'm not very fond of compliments. The occasionaly compliment is okay, but I've never liked them. It took me a while to realize that the reason is that people who give a lot of compliments are usually "people pleasers," and everything that comes out of their mouth is pretty insincere. I have one person in mind who can be relied upon to compliment me under any circumstances. If I roll out of bed and shlump down to the breakfast table, she'll say, "Oh,I hate you, your hair looks perfect and you haven't even combed it." My (internal) response to this has become "shut your piehole." Externally, I ignore all compliments from this person without comment. Compliments and gifts and favors can become a sort of extortion, and the message is "love ME, notice ME, pay attention to ME." If someone gives me a compliment who is not a habitual complimenter, and it's a sincere and kind thing, then I'm happier about it. I'm not sure about this, but I think you can find a whole section in classic ettiquette books pertaining to compliments, and I'm pretty sure it's rude to compliment excessively (makes a person self conscious) or to bundle them with insults or comparisons. Ettiquette books are great for soothing hurt feelings over a friend's rudeness, although good ettiquette forbids us from tearing the page out and circling the broken rule in question and sending it to the friend.

[copperwise.livejournal.com]

I guess I would say I'm a habitual complimenter, but I'm sincere, too. When someone says or does or wears something that I notice, my immediate instinct is to give positive feedback. Sometimes Ryan or I will see a total stranger, like the other day, a woman in a gorgeous dress, and just stop for a second and say "pardon me, but that dress is lovely and you look wonderful." And then we go on our way. Because the world is hard enough on us all every day and a little praise is good.

Now if you are grasping for a return compliment, it's different. A lot of the women at my job were like that. It's annoying.

I have a hard time with compliments myself, because I'm still not used to them I guess. But I'm trying to train myself to just say "thank you" and not pooh-pooh them or say something negative to counteract it.

[poeticalpanther.livejournal.com]

I would say I'm someone who offers compliments regularly, but I do make every effort to be sincere. I think most of my friends know that I'm quite a genuine person, and that I try never to say anything I don't mean quite truthfully.

My motivation is altruistic - which of course allows the counterargument that if I enjoy altruism, then it's not really altruism, as I'm doing it to enjoy myself. For me, that argument is picayune, as it leads, in the end, to genuine good acts for no gain other than an overall gain in happiness - by me and the by the recipient.

I enjoy giving genuine compliments to people, and it is always my hope that such will feel good to them. I admit, it makes me feel good. I'm not sure that's something I should feel bad about. :)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

The total stranger compliment is great. I like to say nice things to people who have on a great necklace or something like that and then walk away fast enough that they know I wasn't hanging around waiting for them to notice my shoes or something like that.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

(Or something like that.)

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

Accepting a compliment is surprisingly difficult, isn't it? In theory, all you have to do is smile and say, "Why, thank you!" But I find my kneejerk reaction is usually to say, "What, this old thing? I got it for $3 at the thrift shop and look, there's a big grease stain on the butt."

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Some people certainly are using compliments to be ingratiating, or to attempt it. That can be annoying. Not everyone who gives lots of compliments is like that, though. Some people just like a lot of stuff.

Combining "I hate you" is never acceptable. I tend to respond to that with a quiet, "I'm not too fond of you just now, either," which takes people aback.

I have an aunt who cannot just like anything. She has to enthuse about everything. (This is what happens when stoic Scandosotans try to overcompensate.) If you ask her, "Do you want something to drink, Auntie?", she will gush, "Love it, love it!" I keep thinking, "How do you know if you will? What if your options are two-week-old orange juice, off-brand root beer, and paint thinner?" So I can definitely understand the annoyance. But I also think that appreciating other people -- and doing it in ways they can process and accept -- is important. That's probably where the etiquette books come in.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

That's probably where the etiquette books come in.

The understanding maybe? I have a very hard time processing compliments, at least verbal ones.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

What I mean is, when the etiquette books say things like "do not be excessively florid in your compliments," they're trying to steer you towards compliments other people can actually process as sincere and positive, and can move on after hearing.

(It's extremely difficult to continue a conversation when someone won't stop about how fabulous something is.)

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

Being my usual self centered fanged pixie.. (in teeny leather boots.) I don't care for word compliments much they make me feel obligated. So in my book it says "don't." Eye and other kinds I am very fond of.

Wondering now, about where this swings into work compliments.. I like evaluations, I think. If I believe the person has some expertise, and eye, I do value those. I don't value things like ohhhh, beautiful!!!!

I hugely value people who stop, and can't seem to move on. Not that that happens a whole lot but a girl can dream.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I value some compliments from people who aren't very articulate about what they like in fiction. Not in the same way as I value the more erudite ones, certainly. But there's room for both.

I have run into a lot fewer work compliments of the structure "you are great and I suck." That's a good thing.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you for the reminder. Sincerity is always appreciated.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

You know, less than an hour after I posted this, I received a compliment from my complimenter. I was wearing denim capris, a green T-shirt that said "San Diego Zoo" on it, and a pair of green sandals. I happen to love the sandals, and wouldn't have minded a compliment on them. But my complimenter walked in, said, "Oh, you look nice, Catherine." And I just sigh. Oh, well.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

* pausing to contemplate the splendid inward picture of Bear in a green corset*

Oh my yes. She would be smashing!

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

And not even in the "Hulk smash!" way, but not entirely devoid of what I would call formidable impression, either.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh yeah. Green corset, that glorious red hair--talk about style!

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

Shucks, both of you. *g*

*blushes*


Thankyew.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

i heard many fine things about a bear in green, but i didn't see you, even when not in green. sad!

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

Drat!

[pieslut.livejournal.com]

The best compliment I ever got was from a guy who told me that he thought I looked nice and comfy and he liked the dress so much, he wished he could wear something like that. I kinda figured that compliment had to be sincere.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Sometimes the least polished ones are the best. One of my friends told me he liked my dress a lot because it reminded him of a popsicle.

[mechaieh.livejournal.com]

Mmmm, popsicles. . .

(Actually contemplating a walk today. It's only 85 degrees outside instead of 100.)

[ckd]

Men of my acquaintance have a firm grasp on the difference between, "Nice dress" and "please reproduce with me," and for this I am deeply grateful.

I'd just like to admire that sentence for a while, if you don't mind the compliment. (And, at least from what's visible in this post's userpic, nice dress also.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Heh. Thanks.

The dress was for seagrit's wedding.

[marykaykare.livejournal.com]

I used to have a terrible time accepting compliments because I didn't deserve them you see. At some point in the last 15 years or so I started simply smiling and saying, "Thank you," instead of arguing with them. It was a great relief when I noticed I was doing that.

MKK--what? doesn't your brain ever do things without telling you?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yes, my brain does stuff without telling me all the time. Plumbing, for example, was "women's work" for a long time in my hindbrain without consulting the rest of the brain at all.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

Leo Tolstoy thought long and hard about what beauty was, and finally decided that a thing was beautiful if it changed his mood. After keeping this in the back of my mind during many encounters with beauty, human and inanimate, I believe this theory has a lot to recommend it. In fact, it seems to me that a large percentage of what humans do is in an attempt to control their emotions or someone else's emotions. Drinking (or other drugs), shopping, makeup, sex, and exercise are all prime examples of people trying to control what they feel.

What I'm saying is that humans aren't precisely making up who's pretty and who's not, in the sense of a conscious individual choice. It may not even be a societal choice. It's an open question how much people can be conditioned by society or whatever to feel a certain way about anything.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

Yes; I've thought about beauty, too, and think it's a reaction we have to something that's especially effective in a particular way.

A beautiful sunset is the light and the whole environment of sky and clouds and the world being beautifully effective. A beautiful machine is one that works with elegant efficiency, a beautiful animal is one the lives effectively: with strength and health and grace; a beautiful person is one who is especially effective at being human, having those qualities of humanity that we admire: awareness, honesty, understanding, humor, spirit, etc.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

Admiration is more cerebral and less emotion-centered than Tolstoy had in mind, though. I think he was talking about how he felt about the appearance of the sunset, not what he thought about it or whether it was effective. Effective is also not the best word, I think, to express what you mean, because it can mean simply, "having an effect" rather than "having the desired effect."

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

I'm looking in a cerebral way at an emotional response. Admiration is our emotional reaction to something. I think we humans tend to share an innate sense of admiration for things that work well. Effectiveness may not be the best term, but it does approach the meaning I'm trying to convey. 'Effective at what?' is a good question, and the answer varies according to the subject. A sunset is an effective visual representation of the environment (relative to the solar system) that's most effective at keeping humans alive.

Since so many people see glamorized models as beautiful I tend to wonder what it is that their look is effectively doing. Obviously 'selling' comes to mind, but also connotations that suggest the look promotes whole industries (of fashion et alia), and even social institutions that rely on over-emphasizing gender differences to a ridiculous extent.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

That approach to the beauty of a sunset hadn't occurred to me, I admit. I'm not sure I'd agree that what people are responding to in the sunset is its representation of physics, though.

I think what the beauty cult is doing is making women look healthiest. Or "healthiest," perhaps I should say. For a trait to evolve it either has to help humans survive or (in this case) reproduce, or come along with some other trait that does. Figuring out what the truth is, is the rub, of course, but the most obvious possibility is that symmetry, flawless skin (thanks nowadays to the airbrush) a good figure and large breasts are sexually all symbols of healthiness and likeliness to reproduce (and produce healthy offspring). And this isn't particularly new; ancient Egyptian statues make it clear that fair skin was prized in women (staying inside to raise the chilluns) and tanned skin in men (getting out there and slayin' the brontosaurus).

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

Good health is certainly a factor in beauty. I make a distinction between 'beauty' and 'glamor,' though, because the second has less to do with genuine health and the ability to reproduce than it does with using biological urges to promote economic interests.