What we did while very tired and still uncertain about titles.

[mrissa]

For a variety of reasons, none of them a great deal of fun, I am more tired than sleepy right now. And I thought, "Ah! I can ask lj to brainstorm titles for me!" Because I am still not convinced that this book ought to be What We Did to Save the Kingdom.

So here are your parameters: there are lots of birds and wings and flight bits in this book. It is a secondary world fantasy. There is a revolution in it. And the magic is sort of math-related, and so I came up with a list of math words that might help:

vector limits inequalities algebra equations theorems axioms coordinates transforms/transformations (note: we have a fair number of transformations in this book) functions curve splines lines limits fractions chains fields spheres prisms

Only I don't want the title to sound like it will require the doing of math for people who are not fond of the doing of math.

Any ideas? The main character's personal title is Ordinal. (It's like Cardinal but completely different. Just as she is like Richelieu but completely different.)

Non-usable suggestions that amuse me, such as Endomorphism's Game, are welcome too, of course.

Comments

[copperwise.livejournal.com]

Can't help you. I think the current title is brilliant. It would make me grab a book off the shelf to find out what it's about, which is what a title is supposed to do.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

And it may be that I go with this title. But my uncertainty is about whether it's the right title for this book, which is harder than whether it's an interesting title, so I'm trying to feel around and see if I can come up with any options that feel more right. If not, I'll just keep What We Did through submission at least.

[genevra.livejournal.com]

Ordinal Transformation?

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

See, I'm afraid that people who don't think of themselves as math people would be scared off by that. Do you think of yourself as math people? If not, would you think it sounded like you had to care about math to understand the book?

[braddr.livejournal.com]

Playing with the flight theme a bit:

Spiraling Flights
Soaring Limits (or Limitations)
Inequality of Flights (or Heights?)

Thinking about prisms made me think of reflection or refraction some:

Reflecting on the Infinite
Mirror Images

Other directions:

Mapping the

Any of these spark any thoughts? I'll let it bake in the back of my head tonight and see if anything else give me an 'oh, how about this' moment.

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

Rising Above? (Hopefully that sort of implies both limits and transformations.)

[reveritas.livejournal.com]

JD says there are probably twice as many wings as there are birds ... That's some math for ya!

What We Solved to Save the Kingdom

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Actually there are twice as many wings as there are birds plus three, because of an ornithopter and an...unfortunate situation.

[alecaustin.livejournal.com]

I suspect that most of these would not really fit with the little I know about What We Did, but perhaps they'll have some other value other than tickling my backbrain:

[Chains/Limits/Fields] of the Revolution
The [Arc/Prism/Limits/Axioms] of History
A [Divided/Fractious] Parliment

The formula I'm using is probably apparent (juxtaposing one math-related word with one political/historical one). I was trying to use Parliment to reference birds, but in the absence of rooks, I don't think it really has the desired effect.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, we have no rooks and no Estates General or Senate or etc. yet, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to let go the parliament.

Divided, however, is quite relevant.

stretching, stretching...

[mechaieh.livejournal.com]

Dr Bunsen Honeydew and the Three Velociraptors

Three Beaks and a Moat

How Many Revolutions Fit Onto a Stereo Needle?

Can You Spell Derivative?

Cast Your nths Upon the Warbler

Goodbye, Mr. Chirps

The Vertex in Spite of Itself


[Disclaimer: on insufficiently effective painkillers atm. I should probably be attempting British crossword puzzles instead.]

Re: stretching, stretching...

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

i^ch R US

(meant to be "i to the ch power" but I can't do exponents here.)

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

Gah, wish I could help, but I am *terrible* at titles. :S

[arielstarshadow.livejournal.com]

I wish I had something to offer, but I'm HORRIBLE at naming things (and coming up with titles counts as naming things). I can't even come up with a good working title for things I write.

I really appreciate reading this - it gives me some ideas for how to maybe help myself come up with a title that at least isn't completely awful. Making word lists is, as silly as this sounds, not something I would have thought to try in conjunction with coming up with a title.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Combining word lists often means blurting out really stupid things ("Remainder of...uh...Mathy Magic Things!"), but sometimes stupid is the path to less-stupid.

[talimena.livejournal.com]

I'm no good at coming up with titles, but I really want to read this!

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[redbird]

My immediate thought was Equations of Flight, but that sounds very mainstream/literary fiction.

Magic of the Spheres?

[hobbitblue.livejournal.com]

Another vote for the title as is, it'd intrigue me enough to pick off the shelf (or click through on Amazon which is where i do most of my book browsing). Mind you, if the real title is more apt as Ordinal Transformation or Axiom of the Spheres or something, maybe I'd not like the book at all, sounds a bit worthy and long-winded, and I'd not assume birds or flight or any of those things.

Flight Factor?

[wordswoman.livejournal.com]

Dividing the Sky?

[skwirly.livejournal.com]

I also came up with 'Ordinal Transformation' before even reading the comments, for what it's worth, although I stuck a 'The' before it. But now I'm rather partial to 'Cast Your nths Upon the Warbler.'

[intrepida.livejournal.com]

"Ordinal Transformation" sounds like hard science fiction rather than political fantansy to my ears. It also sounds off-puttingly generic, but I'm not mathy enough for ordinal numbers to really resonate with me.

"Feathers of the Revolution" is the first thing that springs to mind, but it sounds a little frivilous. "Burden of Flight" maybe?

I think "What We Did to Save the Kingdom" get to the heart of the book, and its a title that would make me take the book off the shelf.

[timprov.livejournal.com]

"Pinions of the Revolution?"

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Still love your title best, and I've read a draft.

[merriehaskell.livejournal.com]

The Ordinal's Revolution is intriguing to me. I still like the original best, though I agree that it might not be THIS book's title, from what you've said.

[songwind.livejournal.com]

I'm at work so I don't have time to read all the comments and see if this one has been mentioned, yet. It's definitely a non-serious suggestion.

You Can Count On Me

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

(Some of these I know have been posted before. I like them, so I'm posting them again. Some of these I may be reposting accidentally, but if so the same applies.)

Ordinal Transforms
Ordinal Revolution[s]
Limiting Transformations
Vectoring the Revolution
Avian Transforms

(On consideration, I'm afraid "Transformers" may be a big enough thing that near variants are dangerous in a title.)

But...What We Did To Save the Kingdom is a wonderful title, and does seem fairly applicable to this book. It's in a rather modern first-person voice, which suits the protagonist of the book. The use of "we" makes it very clear it wasn't a lone hero doing everything. "Save" is good, "overthrowing" or "usurping" are such common things to do with kingdoms; the suggestion of continuity and stability are good. And "Kingdom", of course, both emphasizes that it's fantasy, and contrasts with the modern feel of the first part of the title.

[columbina.livejournal.com]

I realize this has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread, but: What is a "secondary world fantasy," as you use the term? I don't think I have ever heard this phrasing before.

(I still am rather attached to WWDTSTK, I'm afraid. However, I love the idea of Ordinal as a title.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I am using this term to mean that it is a fantasy novel that takes place entirely in another world with no explicit reference to our own world whatsoever.

I tried calling it "high fantasy," but enough people have argued me out of this (there are, for example, no quest elements) that it seemed safer not to describe it that way.

[aryllian]

I'm curious what sort of feel you're looking for in a title. Because What We Did to Save the Kingdom sounds like a fun but somewhat lighter book, and most of the other suggestions sound much much more serious. Almost off-puttingly serious in some cases (especially the ones with the math terms, anything with axioms or theorems or even ordinal transformations is going to sound serious and possibly difficult no matter how you phrase it, and I'm not really intimidated by math, nor would I expect fiction to require me to do math. But all the same, just from the different titles, the book changes in my mind from a slim somewhat cheerful volume to something really thick and sober with some of the other titles (and there are a few in between). It may be the contrast. (Although the more I think about the first title, the more I see not necessarily cheerful possibilities, which may be just me.)

But is the informality/lightness what you don't like about the original title, or is it something else? I also perceive it as a very active title (we did things and we saved things) which none of the other title suggestions really captures.

And every time I try to actually think of a title (since I probably shouldn't write this much without a suggestion or two to go with it) I get stuck because I don't know the theme or themes of the book. Except presumably saving the kingdom? Or doing things? Are the things being done things that someone would want to do, or is forced by circumstances to do, or...? Hmm.

Wrong Division
The Limits of Action
Redefining Lines
Revolution on the Wing

Ahh well.

(And, err, hi! You don't know me, but I started following your blog sort of off and on a long time ago because you write about writing and books and things.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

That's the problem: I think it's more serious than What We Did to Save the Kingdom makes some people think and less serious than some of the other suggestions. If thinking on it is making you think of less cheerful possibilities with time, this may be a good thing.

And hi, welcome!

[aedifica]

I want to read a book named What We Did to Save the Kingdom, but if that's not the right title for this book, then so be it. I would not pick up "Ordinal Transformation" unless the author was already on my to-read list (as of course you are)--it sounds like a textbook for some subject I'm not into.

Titles inspired by your list of words, that may or may not have anything to do with the book itself, that I may or may not like as titles:

Equations of the Inner Sun
The Curve of Her Spline
How We Kept the Kingdom Functioning (math pun, see?)
Chains of Diffraction
Fields of Blood (definitely not one I'd want to read)
Prism, Mirror, Lens (I'd think you were writing Delany homage)

(Do ordinals get cardained?)

[Edited to fix a spelling--I've been reading Delany long enough, you'd think I'd remember how to spell his name!]

[reveritas.livejournal.com]

(Do ordinals get cardained?)


You win!

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Arc of Descent.

B

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I, too, have always liked What We Did to Save the Kingdom, but in the interest of stretching my title generating skills (which can always use a bit of exercise), I'll play along for the fun of it. (Warning: dumb utterance hazard next several paragraphs. Please wear hard hat.)

The Sovereign Transform
The Sovereign Transformed
As Below, So Above
The Bounds of Magic
The Logic of Rule
Kingmaker Matrix
Flight of the Sorceror (Quick, spot the music/media reference!)
What We Did to Save the Not-At-All-Intimidating Totally Math-Free Thingy
Domain Unmapped
Wings for the Kingdom

There's a better title squidging around just under the surface of my thoughts, but it's eluding me. I can taste it, I can feel the shape of it slip past me, but I cannot lay hands on it.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I have that squidgy problem myself.

[thomasbull.livejournal.com]

What We Did To Shape the Kingdom

[thomasbull.livejournal.com]

Rational Transformations
Transformation Group
Rulers Divided