You can find five things here if you squint.

[mrissa]

It's autumn here in Baja Canada, which you can tell because I'm wearing socks again, the tomatillos are going berserk, and my tisane consumption has gone from appallingly high to truly unbalanced. That latter, of course, may be due to the fact that the first chest cold of the season has arrived right on schedule, so I am occasionally alternating in what Midori's Floating World labels a honey-ginger latte, despite the fact that it contains no coffee whatever, which I thought was a requirement for a latte. It's just hot milk with honey and ginger. Really intense, but good on the throat. timprov figured out how to make them at home. He, too, is trying to rid himself of bits of lung. (markgritter too, but he is doing it in California at the moment, and also he refuses the goodness that is honey-ginger latte. timprov refuses the goodness that is tea. Only I know what's good, apparently.)

Yesterday's city, the capital of Britain's dearest ally in 1955? Oslo, Norway. Surprising Brits and Norsk alike, I expect. Well done, mastadge, although guessing all across Scandinavia at once does seem a bit...anyway, well done.

We have candidates for the dress for my godfather's wedding. We also have yet another reject. You know what I hate about those shows where they make people over, other than everything so I don't watch them? They are apparently constantly telling people to try things on in styles they don't usually wear. I do this. You know what happens? They don't fit. You know why I don't wear those styles? They don't fit! (Or else they look terrible on me.) Who are these people, who have styles that fit them perfectly well and are perfectly flattering, and they go around not-wearing them on a whim? Oh, tra la, I think I shall just not-wear perfectly good clothes that will look lovely on me, because there are just far too many perfectly good clothes looking lovely on me in this world, tra la! Also, they are far too readily available at reasonable prices, manufactured by people who are treated humanely and with reasonable environmental practices, tra la! Shut up, those people!

(Tried on a sheath dress in a perfectly beautiful shade of blue, which my mom purchased and brought over and will now have to return to the store with sad and dragging feet. It had a wide belt that would have accentuated my not-wide waist. Guess what? Did not fit. Surprise! Yet another Neal Stephenson dress. What, ask the newcomers, is a Neal Stephenson dress? It is a garment in which I could fit the complete works of Neal Stephenson in the waist of the thing with me. Gigantic cul-de-sacs of fabric, people. Why do I not wear sheath dresses in non-stretchy fabric? Because I am not shaped like a sword aaaaaaaagh the end.)

Comments

[timprov.livejournal.com]

Stir one teaspoon powdered ginger and two teaspoons honey into a mug of warm milk. Taste; decide it needs more honey and add some. You will not decide it needs more ginger.

[clarentine]

Cool; you posted the recipe before I could ask. *g*

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

Oh, tra la, I think I shall just not-wear perfectly good clothes that will look lovely on me, because there are just far too many perfectly good clothes looking lovely on me in this world, tra la!

If all one ever voluntarily wears is jeans and t-shirts, it's possible to go decades at a time unaware of many things that turn out to look good on one.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

And some people have weird preconceptions about what does and does not look good -- often based on a determination to dress the body they wish they had, as opposed to the body they do have.

[alecaustin.livejournal.com]

Boy, howdy, is *that* ever true.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I just don't understand how this then continues to function. Do people with this problem then not try anything else on when Clothing Type X looks bad, on the theory that anything else will look worse?

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

Sometimes; and sometimes they lack the accurate perception you're assuming they possess. X is fashionable; X looks fabulous on models with X-type bodies; buyer wishes she had X-type body; buyer purchases X, and doesn't really see that it doesn't flatter her in the same way.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Ah yes. This thing I have witnessed many times, particularly in Uptown.

I'm not even sure that "doesn't really see that it doesn't flatter her in the same way" is always what's going on there. I think that some of the younger people in question are not making the leap to "the thing being the height of fashion does not require me to wear it; I can choose things that flatter me personally." They just think, "Oh, I am not as pretty as model X or friend Y." When in fact they are, just not in the same way.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

That too. If X is the trendy thing, you wear X, even if it makes you look like a railroad spike draped in chiffon, or a stumpy-armed dwarf.

[moiread]

Yes.

The only styles of dressing myself I had ever been exposed to growing up were through my mother, who is about as much a paragon of fashion as she is everything else. (Unlike some people, I did not have many friends when I was young, and the ones I did have were through the internet, so that really was the only teaching I was going to get.) Then, like any angry, depressed teenager worth their salt, I went through my goth phase, which morphed very quickly into a goth-punk phase because I still couldn't seem to figure my way into clothing choices more complicated than t-shirts, ratty hoodies, cargo pants, and jeans I had taken an exacto knife to and put back together with safety pins. Apart from one dress I stumbled onto by sheer luck alone and a few tops belonging to friends that I tried on and discovered were awesome and was then outright gifted on the spot, I did not wear anything that wasn't ill-fitted jeans, decently-fitted cargo pants, baggy zip-up hoodies, and oversized t-shirts. Period. Shopping was scary and stressful and confusing and nothing worked with my shape and nobody seemed able to help me despite that they all knew how to clothes shop quite well (and they looked good in most of what they tried on, frustrating me further, in that it was easy for them and not for me, and fuck off to the world already with more shit that goes like that) so I stuck to what I knew even if it was extremely limited and not very flattering. I could say I rejected consumerism and the objectification of women and whatever and hide behind that.

About four years ago, when I'd grown out of being an angry gothpunkwhatever, I found I wanted to start looking like a reasonably well-dressed adult. I had watched enough "What Not to Wear" on TLC (yes, really, I learned clothing basics from a TV show) that I was now aware that some things actually could look good on me, and that the change in my body type from "tiny, super-fit, and pretty busty" to "overweight, curiously thicker and rounder all over, and HELLA busty" did not have to send me into panic attacks where clothing was concerned. Yes, it had been a trepidatious topic even before, but now I had some basic rules for things I could do to deal with being my shape in a flattering way. One of those rules was "try on everything in your size, regardless of your opinion on it, and LEARN what works for you".

These days, because of doing that very thing, I have a reasonable knowledge base to work from, and I like to think I do a pretty good job of dressing myself in stuff that looks good on me. At this point, like you, when Helpful Shop Assistants encourage me to try on styles I wouldn't normally touch with a ten-foot pole, I know better. So this is a matter of shop assistants assuming that we, like many people, do not actually have a fairly good idea of what works on us, when in fact we do, so trying to encourage us to go through that process is wasted. But that's a different thing than "everyone clearly knows what works on them, duh, this is all so stupid".

[diatryma.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I started out from a position of 'everything looks bad on me' and am only now edging out of the safe zone of solid-colored clingy T-shirts and any jeans that I don't hate.

I don't look *good*, but I'm not asking for good. I'm asking for unbad, or at least the kind of near-unbad you get when it's clear you've put in some effort and thus it can't be helped.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

You are allowed to ask for good.

No, really. You are.

This is the problem with conventions: they hardly ever come with two-day Mris Can Take You Shopping With Frequent Orange Julius Breaks extensions.

[rmnilsson.livejournal.com]

Many of the women on those shows believe they aren't pretty enough to wear pretty things. Or believe they aren't smart enough to wear clothes that imply they should be taken seriously. So they stick with what they know and figure they can't do any better.

Also, the way a dress hangs on a hanger isn't the way it hangs on a body. I once reluctantly tried on a dress whose waist appeared to be the widest part of it on the hanger. But it looked really good on.

[carbonel]

Also, the way a dress hangs on a hanger isn't the way it hangs on a body.

Word.

I still remember when I was 16 and shopping for a long dress (because that's what people wore for dress-up in 1972 or so) with my mother. She pulled a dress off the rack that I thought was ugly, with terrible lines. She said "try it on," and I did. It looked great on me. I still wasn't wild about the colors, but the fit was perfect and it did all sort of flattering things for my body shape.

I still mostly can't pull that trick off for myself, but it makes me a lot more willing to try things on.

(There was also the beaded dress that had been marked down from $900 or so to $300 that I had to try on because I knew it would be gorgeous on me -- and it was -- even though I was no way going to spend that kind of money for a dress. I was right, too; but I'm still not sure what about it caught my eye that way.)

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I have to remind myself of the hanger thing, because yes -- things can go from hilariously bad to "you know, that's actually kind of hot."

[rmnilsson.livejournal.com]

Also the other way. Had that happen a few times, too.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I was lucky enough to have a really memorable experience with "how it looks on the hanger isn't how it looks on" age the age of 9. My very favorite dress that year was like that. So that knowledge stuck with me forever.

The down side of this is that I often try on hideous things thinking, "Maybe they'll be like that blue dress when I was 9! and look really awesome on!" And then no. But still, better not to miss out.

[redbird]

I think what happens is people remember trying something on when they were sixteen, and it really didn't suit them, and don't stop to think that if their body shape is different, it might be worth another try. Or that just because the object has the same name as a garment that didn't work 20 years ago, it will be the same kind of object and equally problematic.

Also, trying clothing on is stressful. It is tempting to think "okay, here are three things that work. I will buy seven of each of them and be done with it."

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Ah, this may be part of the problem: my body shape is really, really, really similar to what it was when I was 16.

So I have been trying on the same damn styles that don't fit for the last 16 years and going, "Yep, still doesn't fit."

[aedifica]

It is tempting to think "okay, here are three things that work. I will buy seven of each of them and be done with it."

Yes. And so when I found some nice t-shirts that were appropriate for work, I bought them in a bunch of different colors and planned to keep buying them--only this year they changed the style (while keeping the style name, to confuse) so now I have to go through that all again. :-(

It's not so much that I can't find things that I think look nice on me, it's that finding comfortable things that look good *that I can afford* is really time-consuming and so I try to avoid the search.

[alecaustin.livejournal.com]

I'm rather surprised at the "Britain's dearest ally" thing, but I guess it's not that surprising that Oslo didn't have an English-language history until 1955.

They are apparently constantly telling people to try things on in styles they don't usually wear. I do this. You know what happens? They don't fit. You know why I don't wear those styles? They don't fit! (Or else they look terrible on me.)

But... but... how can you support the fashion industry properly if you are not buying clothes in dozens of different styles? Preferably expensive ones?

(I don't generally do a good job at supporting the fashion industry myself. Or any industries other than the publishing, gaming, and restaurant industries, really.)

[jenett]

I was deeply amused, when Elise and I went looking for the amazing interview dress, by that.

She (and the excellent assistant) would bring me things to try on. And because I like the process of clothing experimentation (in small controlled doses, and this was one of those times), I would do so.

And a fair number of times, Elise got that look on her face, and said "Oh, yes, I see why you don't choose that." To which I would grin, and then go onto the next thing. (The other category were things that did, in fact, look good on me, but that I would feel entirely uncomfortable wearing for any lengthy of time for varying reasons. I'd much rather go for the 'looks great on me, appropriate to the setting *and* comfy')

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yah, I tell people, "When I go shopping with people, I am their Barbie doll for the duration."

That doesn't mean I will buy what they bring me to put on. It means I will put it on.

It often means lots of enlightenment for new shopping companions, and it also means that I choose my shopping companions very carefully, because the wrong kind of glee with the Mris As Barbie Experience is really Not Done.

But my mom and I are pretty optimal shopping companions by now, because we are veterans of the school of Just Try It, and yet we also have fairly clear expectations of what will probably not work very well, so we aren't surprised when something in a lovely color but an iffy cut turns out to be the wrong cut etc. (Also even a very clueful shopping companion of a body type other than one's own is not always very good at spotting problematic cuts for one's body type, whereas small differences in size are not always important that way. So Mom and I work well on that front. And back.)

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

The first stage of shopping for a wedding dress was like this. My mother and my sister and I went to David's Bridal, and I tried on one of pretty much every basic style. To my completely lack of surprise, the fishtail dress might as well have come with a sign saying WIDE LOAD stuck on the ass; I do not have enough curviness to me to make that particular curve look right. But I was at least willing to try, on the off chance my assumptions were wrong.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

There's also the thing that some people do clothes as a hobby and other people just wear clothes because they don't want to get arrested for indecent exposure. There could be hundreds of styles out there that suit me and I have no idea about, and I'm going to continue to have no idea about because finding out about them would require going into clothes shops.

(Actually, in Canada, assistants in clothes shops do not laugh at you, because there is this culture of being nice. Shoe shops too. It's much better. But still, clothes shops are a bit claustrophobic.)

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Assistants in clothes shops...laugh at you? In places that are not Canada?

I mean, in California the bra ladies sneered at me like I was asking for something horrible and dirty when I asked for my size, so I left and never went back to that shop.

But laughed at? Uff da, what a thing. That is not what we do.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

If you happen to be in Britain, my advice is to stick to bookshops.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yikes.

[rmnilsson.livejournal.com]

I'm carefully avoiding recommending specific shops, because I don't know what you've tried and what you haven't, so that feels like it would condescending.

But I also frequently have the same problem with waists you do, and I have found a few places in the Cities that accomodate such figures. If, you know, you want a recommendation. Just saying.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Thank you for not springing immediately into helpiness mode!

But in this case, since you've asked, I think going, "Yep, tried that, tried that, with you there, yep!" would feel companionable rather than condescended-to even if I know the whole list, and if I don't, so much the better, so hit me with it.

[rmnilsson.livejournal.com]

My first suggestion would be Ann Taylor. I found a non-knit sheath dress that fit my girls easily and I couldn't even smuggle a Vlad Taltos paperback in the waist. Their prices are a little high for my budget but their quality seems equally so.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I do like Ann Taylor. I don't know if they've had a season changeover since last time I looked, but the last time I looked the color palette they were showing would look lovely on you and make me look like death on crackers, since we can wear some of the same colors and some really not. So if I don't go with either of the two options I have, I may check back and see if they've had a seasonal switch.

[aedifica]

I wonder if this might be an extension of your superpower of knowing what fads look ridiculous even before they go out of style?

[columbina.livejournal.com]

Pardon my digression, but "latte" is "milk." If you tried to order a latte in Italy and they didn't just laugh at you, you'd get a cup of hot milk. It is the hot milk that is the defining characteristic of any kind of latte, not coffee, so your honey-ginger latte is linguistically kosher. (Might even be dietarily kosher as well.)