Translation question: Minnesotan to English

[mrissa]

timprov and I have discussed it and generally agreed that the appearance of the phrase "would hate" in a Minnesotan sentence followed by an infinitive generally means that the person is doing the infinitive, or trying.

Examples: "I would hate to rush you" = "Hurry your butt up."
"I would hate to make you feel like you had to go home now" = "Get out of here."
"I would hate to pressure you" = "Do it now."

In many cases, the speaker is quite sincere: they really, genuinely want the end effect without the stated intermediate event. They want you to hurry without feeling rushed, to go home without feeling unwelcome, to do whatever needed doing without feeling pressured.

My question is: is this universal, or does this phrase get used otherwise elsewhere? Or does it just not get used at all, where you're from?

Comments

[callunav.livejournal.com]

I think the general concept is very common. I don't think people I interact with use "would hate" very often, but, for instance, "don't want" serves the same function. The only real difference is that there is generally a very audible, even when unspoken, "--but--" tacked onto the end. It's not really a finished sentence, and is generally spoken in a tone of reluctance or discomfort. I don't know what it's like in Minnesotan. Do people say, "I'd hate to rush you," as though they mean, "I'd never in a million years rush you," and it's up to the listener to understand what's really being said? Or is it more overt? Do people shift their weight and say awkwardly, "I'd hate to rush you, but..." and then hope that they'll be interupted so that they don't have to finish the sentence?

(That's the response required by ettiquette, I've found. If someone says, "I don't want to make you feel like you need to finish with that, but..." then one is expected to leap into the provided opening with an, "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize you were waiting." If one does not meet this social obligation, the person may not finish the sentence at all (more likely) or may explain why they do need to make you feel that way, even though they certainly don't /want/ to.) It's the ritual discomfort which relly marks the interaction, I think.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Sometimes there's no "but...." It's just, "Oh, I'd hate to rush you" in a very cheerful voice, with no intent to say, "but another group is using this room in 15 minutes, and we'd like to get the trash emptied before they get here" or anything.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

It seems universal to me. I use a modified version, dropping the "would."

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Ah, but "I hate to rush you" is a lot more direct in tone, usually, isn't it? It's an apologetic, "Oh, gosh, I hate to rush you out the door, but we've got to get to the airport at 4:30 tomorrow morning." Not, "Have another piece of dessert; I'd hate to rush you."

[callunav.livejournal.com]

"Have another piece of dessert; I'd hate to rush you."

Okay, that's wicked passive aggressive.

(After 9+ years living in Boston, I've learned to use 'wicked'!) :)

[miz-hatbox.livejournal.com]

Have another piece of dessert; I'd hate to rush you. Gaah! That would be so confusing...unless it was understood that one never accepted a piece of dessert unless it were offered three times, in which case "Have another piece of dessert" doesn't mean a real offer the first time, so that makes it less passive-aggressive in relation to a more passive-aggressive culture.

Do people in your area really do the "say no unless it's offered three times" thing? I know someone I'll call Tanya who hailed from a northerly-midwestern state other than Minnesota. If she would offer me something that I wasn't in the mood for, and I said no, she'd offer it five times before giving up and that made me feel pressured.

But if she came to my house and I offered her dessert and she declined the first time ("you want some pie?" "No thanks.") or the second time ("You sure?" "No thanks, I'm stuffed") I would stop there, because I took her at her word.

I found out much later from her husband that truly, she generally wanted the pie, and thought I was terribly rude for not continuing to offer it until she said yes. News to me...

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I believe our local rule is, "Do not make an offer you don't want accepted." Definitely not the no-unless-three-times thing. Sometimes the "offer infinitely because really, the person should have dessert" thing, but that's different.

My great-aunt used to set plates of cookies next to me on the sofa when I was reading and had declined cookies, just in case I would eat them then. Which, of course, I would not, even if I would have gotten up and found cookies on my own a few minutes later, because I was Stubborn.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

It depends on how it's said, but yes, I'd agree it's more direct. It's still a waffling sort of suggestion. "I hate to rush you, but I just noticed what time it is."

[copperwise.livejournal.com]

You know, Ryan's grandmother is from Minnesota, and we get quite a lot of Minnesotan when we visit. I love reading these posts because I know exactly the tone and inflection and everything.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Oh yah? That could be worse.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

gah! could you do a post about "could be worse"?

my grandmother says it, my ex-husband says it, and the only meaning i can get out of it is "...so stop complaining already!" which makes me want to hit people. and my grandma is kinda little and fragile.

[timprov.livejournal.com]

I imagine this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mrissa/189653.html) is the post you're looking for.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

"Look on the bright side" is the other meaning when other people impose it on you. Alternately, "gee, that sucks," depending on tone: the inflection can make it mean "could be worse, but not by much."

When you impose it on yourself it's like in the post timprov linked to.

[orangemike.livejournal.com]

Roughly, "No tragedies or triumphs of late. I could complain or whine, but I'm not that kind of person. Life is what it is; get used to it."

Well, there's always this variant of it....

[brooksmoses]

It's a nice grammatical construct you have there. I would hate to see it get ... broken.

Re: Well, there's always this variant of it....

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Hee. If you say that with a thick Minnesota accent, people have to spend a few minutes figuring out whether they're supposed to be menaced or not.

Re: Well, there's always this variant of it....

[mkille.livejournal.com]

A Southern menacing phrasing is "It would be a shame if..."

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

I'm used to only getting that aimed at me sarcastically, and form people sufficiently bad at direct communication in other ways that I have the bad habit of taking it literally. If you want me to go, I'm much better with being asked to go directly.

[scottjames.livejournal.com]

In my experience:

"I'd hate to rush you" means "hurry up already." And in my experience, is usually spoken as "I'd hate to rush you...."

"I don't want to rush you" means "don't hurry" and can in fact end in a single period.

[dreadmouse.livejournal.com]

We certainly use "I would hate to " here in my corner of Canadaland. Curse our stereotypical passive aggressive politeness!

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

My husband (a native Minnesotan) has always claimed that Minnesotans are really southern Canadians.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I keep wanting an icon about it. Last weekend I told some Canadians we'd make a better province than Alberta. They agreed, but pointed out that this was not perhaps the highest recommendation one could bestow.

[orangemike.livejournal.com]

Canada could rename Alberta "North Texas" and give it to Shrub in exchange! If you manage to pull it off, I'd seriously consider moving to the Twin Cities.

[songwind.livejournal.com]

In the South, I mostly ran into the direct yet apologetic mode, "I hate to rush you, but.." The token protest is also popular: "DO you want some coffee?" "I'd hate to inconvenience you! Are you sure it's no trouble?"

[mkille.livejournal.com]

Yes, I thought of the token protest, too.

If I wanted to get across the literal meaning of "I'd hate to rush you," it would be most natural to me to say "I wouldn't want to rush you." The same if I was making a real protest instead of a token one: "I wouldn't want to inconvenience you." I'm not sure if that's Southern per se or just me...

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

I don't think I use "would hate", and the "but" tends to be explicit. For some reason the example that leaps to mind is "I hate to disappoint you, but..." and I usually go on to say the but. This is in the context of explaining to a student why zir brilliant idea won't work, and I am feeling apologetic about stomping on their creativity, although I think the reality check is important.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

I know my relatives in Missouri use that sort of thing a lot, and I think it's common in the south too. Maybe a little less common out here in California.

[greykev.livejournal.com]

I've heard "I'd hate to rush you" used as a threat more often than a niceness.

[numinicious.livejournal.com]

I wish I could contribute, but alas, I am unfamiliar with usage of that phrase in Florida.

That, and everybody speaks Spanish.

[wilfulcait.livejournal.com]

We use it here, sometimes in the form "I would hate to..." and sometimes in the form (if you REALLY want the outcome) "I hate to...

Most common: "I hate to break up a party, but..."

[flewellyn.livejournal.com]

I would hate to say that I don't hear this much...

[windcedar.livejournal.com]

I can't quite hear anyone saying the "would hate to" phrase around here (BC, Canada) without being sarcastic, but if they did (non-sarcastically), there would definitely be a "but" appended. You do get the apologetic "don't want to X, but..." + "Oh, I'm sorry..." combination.

Not appending a "but" - unspoken or spoken - seems strange to me. :)